So how do we persuade new players that losing ships is ok?

It’s always seemed to me that the most important mechanic in the entire game is getting new players - and also hisec players who “bling” their ships and never risk them - that a ship in Eve online is a disposable thing; it’s just a suit of armor. I spent the longest time trying to protect a ship that I’d worked hard to afford to “bling out”, only to then realise that I didn’t want to risk losing it by being too “adventurous”.
This is the hurdle with new players that CCP needs to continuously work on. It isn’t good enough to just blithely say that newbies just have to “harden up”.

They won’t “harden up” - they’ll just rage-quit before they have the chance to understand that losing ships in Eve is what we all do, all the time. In my opinion, too many potential players are put off in the first few days/weeks through not being introduced early enough into the idea that losing ships is ok.

It’s not an ISK thing…it’s a mentoring thing in my opinion. Any new player who becomes fascinated by the complexities of Eve Online, needs a mentoring system, just to get them beyond the spaceship-loss/podding hump.

I notice that mentoring got a mention in the recent conference at CCP. I think it’s a great idea.

Whhadararekkon peeps?

It has to be an isk thing because its not just new players, its not about the age of players.

Unless… are you saying that the people here who claim to have been playing for years and then rage cos they lose 10% of their tank are… being untruthful?

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It mainly helps that you have something to do with your ships. There’s a large % of the population who are simply food and not equipped mentally to be fighters.

I agree. So it’s encouraging that CCP were still keen on improving the new player experience further…but, honestly, the best idea is some form of mentoring I reckon. Maybe experienced players forming temp Corps with new players once they’ve completed the SOE arc, or something.

I introduced a close mate of mine to the game recently - he’s an experienced MMO player, just not Eve (lol). He almost rage quit when CODE ganked him on the way to Jita - he was still using autopilot - I hadn’t explained that bit to him…

You see, for ppl coming to Eve from almost any other MMO, they get spooked by losing ships and it costing ISK. Now, I LOVE that mechanic…but mentoring is surely the way to get unfamiliar new players through the barrier…I think anyway…

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But EvE is well known to play in what other games call “Ironman” mode.

I mean, Im all for mentoring, but there’s no way to assure that it wouldnt be used to cause more damage than it solves.

Just look at the CEOs who rip off their members and take advantage of new players.

I knew a poor kid who got left to watch a WH for hours… that was actually pretty heartbreaking.

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The assumption that there’s some sort of silent majority of new - or old - players, who hate losing ships, is wrong. It’s an invention. It’s created by the minority of people who hate losing ships, who keep crying “think of the children” and who will not ever stop screaming and crying until they get what they want.

No. The best way of learning something is by doing it. Theory can come through practise, but practise never comes from theory. You learn swimming by getting thrown into the water. When you don’t, you’ll get fished out, get told what the ■■■■ you did wrong and then get thrown back in. The idea that this causes some sort of traumatic experience is ■■■■■■■■ invented by people who can be described by the top paragraph. What it absolutely does cause is self confidence! Makes sense that those people wouldn’t want that to happen.

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There’s a huge difference between being a space cadet who learns the ropes in the real world and being “mentored”, as far as I know. If your goal is to put people through “situations” to get them to be used to what can happen, then you’ll fail simply because you can’t accurately simulate the “real” in game world.

You’ll stop being surprised by being regularly surprised, not by being told not to be surprised.

…I, like every other player who has ever got into the game - was "food’ for a time. Then, after a while, we become predators. The hard thing is getting new players to understand - and participate in - the transition from prey to predator. That really is the key.

I mean, to this day I’m often more prey than predator…but losing the attachment to your ship is the key to really understanding Eve I reckon.

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Look, i do get where you’re at…but I think maybe I haven’t quite explained what I mean properly.

The first time I was killed in Eve, I was totally unprepared - like everyone - and I messaged the guy who killed me because I had absolutely no idea what had happened (like every new player). He explained not only what had happened, but also how my ship was incorrectly fitted and how I could have avoided the fight with the use of Dscan. I learned a lot from that.

THIS is what I mean by mentoring. I killed and podded a new player just the other day. we had a great chat after, where i explained how he could have avoided the trap and, because he really was a total newbie and I didn’t realise, I gave him the ISK to replace his ship.

:red_circle: You do not need to persuade people if they have the means to replace lost material.

Personally, my biggest gripes with losing ships is the annoying hassle with getting new ships to the place where they are supposed to be if they are not being supplied by corp/alliance. These hours of getting ships back into place are so annoying.

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I respectfully disagree. New players often come from other MMO’s where loss of “life” simply means a respawn without material loss. Unless a newbie is flying the free corvette then, if they stray into loses and get killed by a more experienced player, they are owed a friendly explanation at the least and, ideally the ISK for a new ship. Don’t we a :)ll want more new players to stick around and learn the game after all?

Losing ships is awesome.

My wife plays SWTOR and she worked for over a year to get her gear and then they had an xpac, everything she did was obsolete including crafting.

EVE is great that way, my skills are still just as good now as when I got them.

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Btw , I agree…tht is a real hassle

Lol! I lost three ships today on my alt in FW…they were all great fights and huge fun…and I managed to scare off a destroyer who escaped with a fraction of hull left from my trusty Tristan. (mind you, I wish I’d actually got him).

Just have a scripted NPC gank them on a gate. ez :clap:

Great opportunity to show several things:

  1. You’re gonna get ganked now and then
  2. Ship loss will happen
  3. Hey, check out this loss mail, here’s what things mean!
  4. Check out how Concord punishes the ganker! Warning, only in highsec!
  5. Here’s how you can toughen up your ship, let’s fit tank modules on the next one!
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:red_circle:

But that is what makes EVE different from those other MMO and in my opinion it should not get watered down even more. Losses have meaning. Giving people too much free stuff like instant replaced ISK loss just takes away.

Explanation and helpful advice are absolutely fine. If a newbie or any age player convos you for info on what happened, you should tell them. But giving ISK just because someone lost a ship is something I see as detrimental because these people do not learn to value the effort that goes into creating these things.

I only want competent people to stick around and people who know the difference between other MMO and EVE. People who request handouts like these or else they rage quit can just get lost. :slight_smile:

This is already part of the Career agents. The additional information about killmails and concord could be worked into an interactive video, though, that you can watch if you want to. That would be a neat thing.

Some can’t deal with being dunked by NPCs in belts, how are they going to deal with getting dunked at gates by them too?

/deploys x-large tear collection array II

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The garbage that cry about NPC losses today are lost causes. They’re beyond saving.

Which is why we need to focus on the new incoming generation of players and hope they start their career with a spine developing.

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Agree with this…but if a new player wants to know why they were killed/popped it’s just dumb to not try and help imo.