Nobody likes a challenge.
New players ONLY want easy games.
If you don’t agree, you are the other political party!
I do like a challenge, but waiting for a timer to tick down is hardly a challenge, is it. If you spun that a bit further, it might become a challenge for someone on a tight budget playing video games as an escape from the real world.
Then stop ■■■■■■■ waiting and play the game instead.
I do in the free time I have, as an alpha mind you, because I have so many SP that I can do many things I like, and have the ISK to buy the tools that give me a good perfomance even without the full skills.
New players don’t have that luxury. Maybe there would be more new players, or more of the ones that start would keep playing, if they had a fraction of that luxury (the skills).
We don’t know, but again, my point is: Let’s try it and see.
You can buy PLEX.
For what, I am having fun, because as I mentioned, I can do a lot of things.
New players will never be able to do what I can unless they spend a year training, paying for Omega.
Good.
Exactly my point about a wrong approach: what can you do with what you already have.
It’s never the ship that makes the pilot a better player
I agree, especially since the changes to industry and mining - and that’s mostly as an observer, I don’t have an axe to grind with ccp on that matter, in fact I built my first dreadnaught solo this year, mining all the raw resources myself on a single account, and doing 95% of the manufacturing. The bigger challenge however is actually fitting the thing - which is an ISK issue, not an sp one, in my case.
That is where we differ in opinion. I would tread very carefully, honor the original design of the original crew, and not turn it into some frankenstein manifestation. I’d rather create a new game entirely, and keep Murphy safely tucked away before he proves his Law is the Law. lol.
Yeah, I only had Amarr up to 5. But CCP gave us plenty of advance warning about the class turning racial, and I managed to skill all of them up to 5. Yay, baby steps to becoming fully cross-trained, in fact it did me a big favor 
You know when you do the daily sp hunt for npc’s ? And you come across a new player in an expensive ship hanging in an anomaly or a belt, shooting bb pellets ? You just zoom in with your little t1 frigate and pewpew the npc’s right under his nose because clearly he is clueless ? It happens every day, literally. You see people flying shiny faction hulls, because they’re supposed to be better … Yeah, they are better, if you know what you’re doing. And they don’t know yet. Giving them more free sp and more isk is only going to make it worse. And then it will be on to the next anti-gank thread, lol.
It may all sound a bit elitist, but I’ll be the first to confess that I’ve made all the mistakes in EvE, I’m still making mistakes (fewer at least) and losing ships, still suck at pvp. But I’m having a good time discovering and learning - which the game provides continuously because the difficulty factor is of course your opponents which are humans (after having achieved at least a level of understanding of the pure mechanics).
Willkommen @Jasmin_Acami to the forum PvP,
While I do agree it is easy enough to “learn Eve” as I stated in my last post, what you are describing is an Omega account who has experienced the start up. If Alpha players (such as myself) apply themselves to learning the game, they will be successful in roughly a month. There is nothing wrong with buying Omega or Plex, it only becomes a necessary evil when you want to “win the game”. We all know that is never going to happen.
By the way, it told me to welcome you to the forums.
A few people have mention catching up, why should new players expect to catch up with someone who has committed 20 years of playing .
Skills are of course essential but the emphasis should be on player skill which is more important in many areas, just because you have the skill points to fly a paladin doesn’t mean you’ll be any good in it.
As long as all skill lvls have things to do in eve, thats the important thing and an understanding of what a group can achieve over a solo player .
Maybe we should start a low skilled corp with as many players as possible and try out some of these supposedly hard things
Like a new Brave Newbies ? A new Red vs. Blue ? Best idea I heard in a long while !
wow, so much polemic hyperbole, silly arguments and gatekeeping in this thread, nearly r/eve levels…
balancing things with time and isk (also related to time) in a 20y old game is already questionable. the fact that there is not a single non monetarized “catchup” mechanic doesnt make it any better. sadly there probably wont be any big changes in that regard, since its one of ccp’s cash cows.
i always found the skill system in eve lackluster and very unrewarding, you just have to wait and/or pay. skills like the mentioned magic 14 and other support skills makes this even worse, since they dont offer a different gaming experience like ships and weapon skills. (i am not talking about performance, its obvious that skills make a huge difference in challenging content) with nearly all sub cap support skills maxed, perception/willpower mapping and 24/7 365 a cerebral accelerator running, the time to train in to a new hull/weapon system feels somewhat reasonable.
its a good thing that newbros can get in to all kind of different content faster and competing there. the new player retention rate would most likely benefit from it. for that reason i would not mind if the training time of the former mentions skills gets reduced, or newbros get more sp in there by default. i would also like if newbros get more remaps per year than a vet. the newbro has to crosstrain a lot and would greatly benefit from it and vets dont get negatively affected by this all that much since they most likely have long skills in the queue anyways.
I was actually surpriced how much a new player can do nowadays. Running combat anomalies without even a single skill trained in a destroyer.
This is the crucial element, the actual “magic moment” in EVE.
The OP and Syrias seem to be arguing from the element of “The only interesting things to do in EVE are advanced skills things”, and think getting new players into advanced-skills related activity is helpful.
They’re completely missing out that actual new players are entirely unprepared to engage in advanced skill activities with advanced-skill ships and modules. From a conceptual understanding, from a player skill, and from a “can you afford to lose it?” point of view.
When teaching anyone a new system of thought and behavior, you don’t plunge into advanced mechanics. You start with the simple basics, give them one or two things to master. If the student only has a couple things to learn and a couple tools to use, he focuses on those things and learns to use them.
As soon as he has a good grasp of those tasks and tools, you introduce the next ones. Again, since they’re few and his only focus, he learns those, and moves upward and onward.
You don’t take a grade 1 student into a library, dump 200 books and 80 tools in a wheelbarrow, and tell him “There’s your education kid, come back when you’ve finished it all!”.
From actual interaction with literally hundreds of new players, I can state categorically that the issues of an awkward interface they don’t easily learn, minimal guidance on “what do I do next”, and the lack of a more visible “reward system” to reinforce that they are growing and progressing are all far, far more relevant to player retention than “I didn’t start with enough SP to do the things I want”.
I’m perfectly fine with significantly increasing SP gain for new players - in small increments, as they play various aspects of the game, as a reward incentive for progress, and as part of a guided achievement tree presented to them so they always have some clear notion of a thing they can “do next”.
SP is fine as part of a player growth, goal-setting, interaction and reward system.
As a “startup giveaway”, it’s just a convenience and encouragement to vets, bots and farmers creating disposable or multiple alts that they want to use to immediately increase their resources.
Truly new players have no need of a T2 ship with T2 modules, or cloaks, or cynos. They do have a desperate need for goal-setting, a feeling of progress, and interaction with other players.
Startup giveaways provide none of that.
I would reprocess it for sure! 
The devs need to eat, too, y’know?
Giving them more free sp and more isk is only going to make it worse.
I don’t understand how ‘free ISK’ keeps appearing in this discussion.
That is where we differ in opinion. I would tread very carefully, honor the original design of the original crew, and not turn it into some frankenstein manifestation. I’d rather create a new game entirely, and keep Murphy safely tucked away before he proves his Law is the Law. lol.
I also feel like removing/granting the magic 14 to everyone would not bee frankensteining the game. New players would have ships with more generous fitting space, better navigation skills and capacitor life, could target further out and not drop out of warp on a few odd big systems traversing space (which i don’t feel like is a big deal anyways so whatever), and would have to spend less of their training time to get there, and could spend more of their training time into trying different things or specializing.
And, if implemented correctly (Which is dangerous, cause CCP), old Players who somehow miraceously have not trained all the Magic 14 to max yet, could also benefit from it, or get SP refunded which they could spend on other stuff.
If done properly, OP’s suggestion could be a win-win-win.
New players win out without knowing,
old players win through more SP,
CCP could win by increasing the rate of new players sticking with the game.
Just like the old learning skills.
Thanks for pointing out the other stuff that is also highly discouraging, for example the UI or lacking guidance.
The UI, as a returning player, was also a little bit challenging compared to how it was before.
Maybe it could be changed through a menu, where it’s standardly set to ‘New player’ and only shows the stuff you need for the first 2 hours, and whenever a Career Agent teaches you something new, he shows you from where to grab the additional buttons and stick them to your neocom bar.
Vets could uncheck it, and have all the standard buttons / custumize it themselves.
For the goal-setting, the SP point is also viable.
For the ‘Can you afford to lose it?’/ISK-Side, that is oftenly brought into this thread:
How exactly would, say, removal/granting of magic 14 change that? A new player would still start in a Frigate, having to work his way through the available/clearable content and generate ISK before being able to afford something he ‘can’t afford to lose’. And no SP requirement will ever change that. Not for Titans, and not for a Helios.
And there’s no guarantee that even if someone has spent millions of SP to get 100% out of the possible skill influenced performance bonuses of a ship that he will know how to fly it. People that learn will learn, people that will not learn will continue to whelp expensive ■■■■.
A bunch of people are invoking the idea of „catching up“ unironically and genuinely using it as a motivational reason for changes. I am immediately skeptical of the arguments because „catching up“ mentality comes from entirely different games than Eve and have really distorted ideas, in my experience, of the game:
So yeah, in my mind people unironically talking about „catching up“ are holding the game wrong or have mismanaged their own expectations.
Every new player deserves ten free killmails.
prove me wrong
Let them eat reconstituted corpse cake.
—Gadget likes the icing