The whole point is that one can never “catch up”.
EvE’s just not that kind of game. Catching up just doesn’t exist here.
A player can specialize quickly and effectively,
The NPE and the skills currently given are fine.
—Can’t catch Gadget
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when power imbalances reach a critical level it gets stale and boring, which will lead to something worse than i could be. thats the reason why “catch up” and other regulation mechanics exist. literally every decent not p2w game with competent devs has them, or implemets them at some point if needed. even eve has some, they could just be a lot better.
Here one comes to one of the true ironies of Eve. Probably one of the biggest paradoxes in the game. People who want to be able to ‘mine in peace’, yet it never ever occurs to them that the very materials they are mining are the raw materials for combat and war. Indeed, the entire mining, hauling, and industry of Eve is a huge pyramid the apex of which is ultimately pew pew of some sort.
Thus miners are involved in PvP whether they like it or not, as they are the source of material for that PvP. The Catalysts that gank them are made from the very ore they mined. How can they dissociate themselves from this and pretend that PvP has nothing to do with them and can they just be left to ‘mine in peace’…lol.
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i was kind of agreeing with you (no skills to 5 though, 4 maybe, gunnery/missiles support, cpu and energy, cap, tanking, etc.), but when i read 20 million on top…
with 20 million they get into a marauder with everything at 5, what’s wrong with you???
■■■■, i could probably do a carrier alt with that…
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I don’t remember anyone making this argument in the thread.
The point that I and other have made, (that you are ignoring or missing) is that new bros need time to learn the soft skills in the game. If you give them tons of starting skills off the bat, new guys are not going to be more completive, but will just die in more expensive ships that are harder for them to replace. this is likely to make the new guy more frustrated and quit the game earlier than if they learned the ropes on a bunch of t1 frigates.
This is the same process for any MMO that I have played.
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“How would removing the magic 14 change that?”
Simple answer: it eliminates some tedium and instead allows new players to begin training something that they DO care about. If this were a game about driving cars, the magic 14 would include “skills” like engine lubrication, wiper maintenance, and upholstery upkeep. Skills no one – NO ONE – is excited about. They add nothing to the player experience or the game.
Right now we are asking people to pay money and invest time “learning” skills simply to get the stupid things out of the way, so that they can go on to learning the things they want to do. Things like guns, drones, the ships they want to try, whatever.
My goal is to get them doing those things as fast as possible. That’s all.
Wait till u try get everything to 5, oh and theres more, watching tis (talking in stations) on all the promises made during 2022. Skills came up - what changed nothing - let’s add more skills to keep these guys doing nothing yet subbed. so yeah we talking in stations alright - nice social experiment - not so nice game mechanic this waiting on skills 3 maybe 4 months to probe all 5, thats probing nevermind gunnery or anything else - aint this game collecting tears at the moment? Seems so…
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Yes, I understand your point, and it is valid, but in a big way it makes the opposite point.
New players will still need time to learn the player knowledge and skill part of the game. But it is a matter of perspective. A new player doesn’t see that mountain in front of him. He can’t. He cannot even begin to know all the things he does not know. To the extent that he can see it, the player we want to keep will look on it with wonder – as I still do – and as something to accomplish.
What the new player does see, instead of a wonderland of things to learn and experience, is a mountain of ■■■■■■■■ skills standing between him and the marvels mentioned above. A good number of these skills there for no other purpose than to slow his progress down – a legacy from twenty years ago when slowing progress was important.
It wont hurt existing players in any way. It can’t. CCP can refund the skill points / time we have already spent on them and no one is hurt.
Sure 
no average person with some motivation needs that long to understand the eve combat mechnics, as it takes to max out a single frigate and all the related combat skills. when missing knowledge is holding someone back, he can just work on it asap and get the informations he needs to overcome it. missing sp on the other hand takes very long, or some serious grind for injectors, but that will also take quite some time with shitty skills.
for a new pilot learning the mechanics and decision making is obviously more important at first, but that does not change the fact, thats more sp gives an advantage and makes one more competitive
with more sp a player is also able to grind and replace ships faster
But it can hurt new players (if by “it” you mean giving new players 20 million skill points off the bat).
This will give them the ability fly larger more expensive ships. Now the new player is looking at the same kind of “mountain”, it is just that they want to fly a battlecruiser or a barge, but don’t have the money for it or the skill to fly it well. So they buy plex, and buy a ship that is impossible for them to replace without spending real life money. And because they still have not accumulated the experience and soft skills needed to compete with vets, they loose the expensive ship that they can only replace with isk that they had to spend real life money on. The new player still can’t compete with the vet, they are just loosing more isk faster because they are in more expensive ships that are more of a target.
After loosing a couple ships that they could only have through spending real currency, new bros learn that they can never be competitive with the veterans, and the only way to play is is to constantly spend real life money (i.e. EvE is pay to win).
I see your idea absolutely hurting new players. I understand your argument, but it will do more harm than good in the long run. It short circuits the learning process for new players, not giving them a chance to learn the soft skills that they need to succeed, while giving the new player the ability to fly ships that are going to make them bigger targets. This is why I am against the idea.
EvE is a very slow paced game, with slow progress compared to most modern games. This is not a problem with EvE in the long run, but I understand that is is unattractive to people who are used to the instant gratification that many new games have. Most of the games that offer instant gratification, however, sacrifice long term meaning for this gratification. Short circuiting the long term learning process for short term gratification will not improve the game, or increase the player base long term.
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Really? I have has discussions on numerous threads on this forum with people who don’t know how to d-scan, don’t want to learn how to d-scan, and think that they should not have to learn how to d-scan to keep themselves safe. These players just want to nerf high sec pvp rather than learning how to fly well.
So you are agreeing with me here, but just glossing over the fact that giving a pilot 20million skill points short circuits the learning process.
With more skill points and no soft skills a player is able to loose more expensive ships faster, putting them deeper in the hole.
I understand the argument you guys are making. When I first started paying the game, I made the same mistake you guys are making, thinking that if I rushed to a battleship I would be better at the game, more dangerous in pvp, and be able to crank out missions without trying.
I feel luck that I learned early on the dangers of this thinking.
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i only want to bring to your attention that the world has changed and are continuing to change. Everything are faster has much more pressure and therefor 2022 CCP mentioned attributes should be removed therefor they recognize that times of a decade ago are no longer relevant. I am merely trying to point out what occurred and are currently occurring. Find the desired age group desired for continuous long terms subs needs a relook as I believe the point is of the said op. Few has the time these days to invest like it was a decade ago.
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It amuses me to no end how some want to make this discussion into some kind of Maoist struggle session with classist ad-homs. Guys, this is just a space game, not a revolution overthrowing monarchial tyranny.
There are many fast paced games were nothing means anything and people can jump right in without earning anything.
These games are not EvE. Go play those games if you want. I do not want to myself, and would not spend time or money on them.
I do like spending my time and money on EvE.
Please quit trying to make EvE into something that it is not.
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Not really… it would just make them a whale in an expensive ship that they don’t know how to use…
—Gadget would rather not save these whales
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Hmmm you take on a comment on getting personal - the very next forum post you do the same - as I said pointing out - stay on point please? Thank you
Yuuuk! At least add some sauce to it 
I don’t know what Maoists and ad-homs are; those eatable?
I do know what MAGA nuts are and Aiko sounds just like one.
Hmm, you are going to be more specific in your criticism for me to understand.
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I guess what I don’t understand about these posts is there is always some proclaimed correlation between ‘the game is dying and nobody sticks around to play it’ and ‘the game is too hard to get into’. But if the game is actually on the decline, shouldn’t that mean we go back to when the game was harder? With FEWER giveaways and HARDER mechanics? That’s when the game had 60k players. This idea of ‘well gamers today just aren’t patient enough or tough enough’ is such BS. I’ve heard that about ‘the youth’ every year of my life.
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