So I made a new character. It was eye opening

[Fifie_Brindacier]

@Nienna_Nannie

I do know what MAGA nuts are and Aiko sounds just like one

More like a MEGA nut

[El_Paccino]

I merely informed what occurred and will occurr - the word “you” are what you used. Therefor personlisation with probable baiting. therefor pointed out I been playing a long long time with a skill que of two years. Pressumptious a lil but I leave it there. Stay Safe (edit: before mercury retrograde affects even more)

[Nienna_Nannie]

@Wes_Wyhunnan

This idea of ‘well gamers today just aren’t patient enough or tough enough’ is such BS. I’ve heard that about ‘the youth’ every year of my life

They say that when they have no clue😉

[T_Elliot]

@El_Paccino

I merely informed what occurred and will occurr - the word “you” are what you used. Therefor personlisation with probable baiting. therefor pointed out I been playing a long long time with a skill que of two years. Pressumptious a lil but I leave it there. Stay Safe (edit: before mercury retrograde affects even more)

So you are telling me I did the exact thing you did?

[Tahiro]

@T_Elliot

Really? I have has discussions on numerous threads on this forum with people who don’t know how to d-scan, don’t want to learn how to d-scan, and think that they should not have to learn how to d-scan to keep themselves safe. These players just want to nerf high sec pvp rather than learning how to fly well.

players not wanting to learn how to dscan is in no way related to the skill system, the topic, or my post

@T_Elliot

So you are agreeing with me here, but just glossing over the fact that giving a pilot 20million skill points short circuits the learning process.

i was trying point out that more sp does make a player more competitive contrary to what you said, just not necessarily on the first day, but i guess in a 20y old game new can be a bit of a stretch. neither did i say giving 20m sp to a new player is a good idea, i wonder why you bring that up?

@T_Elliot

When I first started paying the game, I made the same mistake you guys are making, thinking that if I rushed to a battleship I would be better at the game, more dangerous in pvp, and be able to crank out missions without trying.

a weird conclusion/interpretation again, i am not asking to make things easier for me. i have enough isk, sp and knowledge to participate and compete in every subcap activity i every wanted and if there is something other i would like to fly, i can get there in a reasonable amount of time, since i already have the support skills and can make enough isk for whatever i possibly want.

[T_Elliot]

@Tahiro

players not wanting to learn how to dscan is in no way related to the skill system, the topic, or my post

But it is totally related to soft skills that people do not learn, and was the point of my post.

@Tahiro

i was trying point out that more sp does make a player more competitive contrary to what you said, just not necessarily on the first day, but i guess in a 20y old game new can be a bit of a stretch. neither did i say giving 20m sp to a new player is a good idea, i wonder why you bring that up?

You were pointing that out, while also pointing out that “learning the mechanics and decision making are obviously important”. These soft skills are more important than skill points, and giving new players free skill points tends to short circuit them learning these soft skills.

@Tahiro

a weird conclusion/interpretation again, i am not asking to make things easier for me. i have enough isk, sp and knowledge to participate and compete in every subcap activity i every wanted and if there is something other i would like to fly, i can get there in a reasonable amount of time, since i already have the support skills and can make enough isk for whatever i possibly want.

I in no way saying what you want to do. I am talking about new bros. I think it is weird to you because you are not understanding my point.

[Tahiro]

@Gadget_Helmsdottir

Not really… it would just make them a whale in an expensive ship that they don’t know how to use…

skills, especially the support skills i was refering to earlier dont make a ship more expensive, thats a player decision. losing stuff and learning from it part of the game experience there is nothing wrong with that generally.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Skills do make the ships more expensive, because if a new player can fly more expensive ships and is not held back by the game (because of skills) they will attempt to fly ships too expensive for a new player to be flying.

There is a reason new players start with the skills to fly cheap frigates. They can afford to lose those cheap frigates while they learn how to play the game.

[T_Elliot]

@Nienna_Nannie

I don’t know what Maoists and ad-homs are; those eatable?
I do know what MAGA nuts are and Aiko sounds just like one.

Well google could be your friend here, but I will help. Chairman Mao is the famous Chinese communist leader who lead the revolution that overthrew the Chinese Republic. A “struggle session” in this sense was a common event where people who were guilty of political crimes in Chine (usually people who were intellectuals or successful in the Chinese Republic) were them privately and publicly insulted attacked, and tortured in hopes of forcing them to admit to their political crimes.

Ad-homs is short for “ad hominem”, a personal attack on someone instead of addressing their argument.

Out of the blue you made a personal attack on the space princess accusing her to be a member of a political group, while insulting the political group itself, and using her class as well for a personal attack.

Hence “Maoist struggle session”. Did you not learn about this in school?

Lets not get the thread off topic with political attacks on individuals or groups please.

[Nienna_Nannie]

@T_Elliot

Chairman Mao is the famous Chinese communist leader who lead the revolution that overthrew the Chinese Republic. A “struggle session” in this sense was a common event where people who were guilty of political crimes in Chine (usually people who were intellectuals or successful in the Chinese Republic) were them privately and publicly insulted attacked, and tortured in hopes of forcing them to admit to their political crimes

Huh, I like this Mao! My kind of guy.

@T_Elliot

Ad-homs is short for “ad hominem”, a personal attack on someone instead of addressing their argument

Oh, I understand. Like what Aiko does in this forum on a regular basis, gotcha.

@T_Elliot

Hence “Maoist struggle session”. Did you not learn about this in school?

School? What’s that?

@T_Elliot

Out of the blue you made a personal attack on the space princess accusing her to be a member of a political group, while insulting the political group itself, and using her class as well for a personal attack

I did no such thing sir. If you reread my posts you will find that I said that she acts like…

@T_Elliot

Lets not get the thread off topic with political attacks on individuals or groups please

Yes, let’s ask Aiko not to do that anymore.

[Aisha_Katalen]

@T_Elliot

I in no way saying what you want to do. I am talking about new bros. I think it is weird to you because you are not understanding my point.

@Aisha_Katalen

This seems difficult for people to understand, they’re incapable (or just unwilling) to use someone else’s perspective.

No real point in having a discussion with people like that.

[T_Elliot]

@Nienna_Nannie

I did no such thing sir. If you reread my posts you will find that I said that she acts like…

Yes, and in the statement you are clearly attack her and the political group at the same time. Even if you did not go to school I can’t believe that you are naïve, or think that others are so naïve to not recognize this.

[T_Elliot]

@Aisha_Katalen

No real point in having a discussion with people like that.

To be direct, I think that some people are purposefully misinterpreting or ignoring the points being made. You are likely right @Aisha_Katalen, but I am willing to make my self clear over and over to avoid people trying to spin what I am saying into something else.

[Nienna_Nannie]

@T_Elliot

Yes, and in the statement you are clearly attack her and the political group at the same time. Even if you did not go to school I can’t believe that you are naïve, or think that others are so naïve to not recognize this

Whatever dude. I don’t believe you’re Aiko, unless you’re an alt of her, so I don’t see what dog you got in this.

[T_Elliot]

@Nienna_Nannie

Whatever dude. I don’t believe you’re Aiko, unless you’re an alt of her, so I don’t see what dog you got in this.

You’re right, I am not Aiko or her sock-puppet.

I have spent a fair amount of time discussing this topic though, and I don’t want you derail it with ad-hom attacks on people out of the blue. I made that pretty clear in my first response to you.

[Io_Koval]

@Tahiro

when power imbalances reach a critical level

I’m not sure why you’re bringing this up. This is a thread about new players, they’re not expected to come out of the AIR Career Program ready to push The Imperium out of Delve or PanFam out of dronelands.

A new player could have just as much charisma as an old player and start a movement of gathering like-minded folks to start making real changes on the nullsec sov map, or bring to life a lowsec constellation, or bring to life a secondary high sec trade hub, or plant a stick in a WH, whatever their goal is. There is literally zero SP requirement to do this, as it is all soft-skills, and completely ungated. They just have to be very charismatic and great at motivating people and making friends with the high SP people. There is no “catching up” required.

If the above doesn’t convince you: They can also just buy Titan pilot characters.

[T_Elliot]

@Wes_Wyhunnan

I guess what I don’t understand about these posts is there is always some proclaimed correlation between ‘the game is dying and nobody sticks around to play it’ and ‘the game is too hard to get into’. But if the game is actually on the decline, shouldn’t that mean we go back to when the game was harder? With FEWER giveaways and HARDER mechanics? That’s when the game had 60k players. This idea of ‘well gamers today just aren’t patient enough or tough enough’ is such BS. I’ve heard that about ‘the youth’ every year of my life.

Hmm, it is logical that if the game was more popular when it was harder, maybe to make it more popular again, it needs to be harder again.

Seems logical to me.

[Sarah_Olson]

@Aiko_Danuja

Every new player deserves to be ten free killmails.

Fixed that for you…

I mean what better way for newbies to learn.

[Syzygium]

@Io_Koval

They just have to be very charismatic and great at motivating people and making friends with the high SP people.

And you have to have the willpower and discipline to invest hours, days, months, probably years of your real life free time in orga- and logistics work for an online game to make it happen.

[Io_Koval]

Yep, and none of it is gated by SP.