So I made a new character. It was eye opening

[Aiko_Danuja]

New players don’t need to start with Mastery.

[Minin_alnigh_Lon]

@Nienna_Nannie

You will lose plenty of ships, well-fitted or not. If you put your self-esteem into the mix I don’t give you 6 months

At least I don’t whine about it like you!

@Nienna_Nannie

Plus, self-esteem has nothing to do in a game like EVE where all the risks is stacked against you for at least 5 years of your play, how good or how bad you do isn’t reflected on you but on how good the game is

I bet you play your single-players with CHEATS and MODS. EVE isn’t like that. You clearly cannot handle a mmo and it’s YOU who will be gone in 6 month.

@Nienna_Nannie

That’s the same argument for getting rid of it and finding other, better ways to make players pay for participation

Which are?
I don’t see you come up with good ideas.

[Ramona_McCandless]

“all the risks is stacked against you for at least 5 years of your play, how good or how bad you do isn’t reflected on you but on how good the game is”

How does the quality of a game reflect on whether you do well in a high difficulty environment? Seems to me that a person’s skills and abilities are exactly whats tested in an adverse environment.

Id not get into an exchange with someone who makes that kind of statement, he’s clearly in it for the attention and nothing else.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Kezrai_Charzai

It can be T1, but please include all the armor, shield, engineering, navigation, targeting, rigging, missile, drone and any other skills you think would be needed for a decent, well-rounded T1 build.

Gallente Frigate I
Small Hybrid Turret I

Can be trained in the first few minutes. If you are impatient, you can skip Gallente Frigate I and put neutron blasters on a corvette.

[Minin_alnigh_Lon]

@Ramona_McCandless

How does the quality of a game reflect on whether you do well in a high difficulty environment? Seems to me that a person’s skills and abilities are exactly whats tested in an adverse environment

I don’t know. He has 42 posts with nothing but rants and whines! EVE is clearly not a game that will make him happy. Maybe he will find his place in CandyCrush, when the mmo is out on Steam.

[Gadget_Helmsdottir]

@Nienna_Nannie

Over three months training to get into a well-fitted Cruiser but the Skill Queue doesn’t hold players back… sure.

But to get into a usable cruiser that can do the same content is mere days.

Use that cruiser until the dream machine is ready.

–Gadget’s ship is paid for

[Gadget_Helmsdottir]

EvE Offline

It’s Space Minecraft

–Gadget already owns No Man’s Sky

[Gadget_Helmsdottir]

@Nienna_Nannie

The Skill Queue is a problem for retention.

Then prove this.

The amount of SP a new character gets has only risen since EvE’s start - especially since Alpha became a thing. Now show that this has helped retention.

News flash - it hasn’t.

The carrot chase keeps new players in the game until they find community.
Community keeps the player playing when they have all the skills they want.

–Gadget found her niche

[T_Elliot]

I’ve changed my mind.

EvE is too hard. Players that don’t want to learn and work, err, I mean new bros, should not have to wait until skills are trained. They should just be handed things off the bat. Learning new skills and working with perseverance is for suckers. It is a gateway that just can’t be overcome, except with forethought and planning, and ain’t nobody got time for that!

I’m going back to the greatest space-game of all time! A true classic with no obnoxious mountain of gates that must be surmounted as if I was some kind of half-done, want to be Everest climbing try-hard. This game has no fancy skills that one must earn, no oppressive hierarchy of ships that I have to save up for to buy, and no soft skills that I have to learn like that ganky “d-scan”. It just has a left button, a right button, and a fire. Simple and straight forward. There is no player retention problem there!

I hope I can still find my old Atari and my space invaders cartridge.

So long suckers, I’m off to play a real space game!

[Hollie_Swoons]

@Aiko_Danuja

New players don’t want a challenge, they want easy instant wins and infinite money.

I wouldn’t say no to infinite money, lol, but then everything might as well be free.

@Syzygium

Dozens… ah, HUNDREDS of players just constantly warping into the ball of fire and BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM LASERS MISSILES EXPLOSIONS for hours and hours. So exciting!

@Kezrai_Charzai

Point being that nowadays when you can stack dozens of skills in the queue to reach some goal, and players look at the training time as their end goal and see weeks, months, possibly even over a year… to reach a reasonable goal.

That’s probably not a real retention booster

Maybe for those who have the illusion that they will conquer the galaxy, no. But not all new players are the same and that’s what’s missing in this thread full of generalities.
My queue is 110 days. Big deal, I plan on playing for much longer than that and while I wait on t2 stuff I can certainly learn and play while waiting. The career agents give free ships and modules. Those are to get blown up in the process of learning.
If someone is so impatient he can buy skill injectors and PLEX and get to fly all the cool stuff then hopefully I’m there to blow him up in his shiny ship.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Nienna_Nannie

Over three months training to get into a well-fitted Cruiser but the Skill Queue doesn’t hold players back… sure.
How many times over has that scenario happened? I’m sure at least 50,000 times in 10 years.

It’s never happened…because the 3 months is BS for a cruiser.

In fact, just re-visiting the Gila example I gave above, it’s actually even less time than I gave…because although the account is 3 weeks old I only made it Omega a week ago. Which in terms of SP makes it 2 weeks worth of Omega SP.

So for a 2 week old account…here are the times remaining that it shows for training, based on Absolute Order or Wrecking Machine doctrine fittings…

T2 Hecate ( Tactical Destroyer )… 12 days

T1 Gila ( Cruiser )…1 day
T2 Gila ( Cruiser )… 1 month 12 days

T1 Vedmak ( Cruiser )…15 days
T2 Vedmak ( Cruiser )…1 month 15 days

T2 Auguror ( Cruiser )…28 days

T2 Phantasm ( Cruiser )…1 month
T2 Drekavac ( Battlecruiser )…1 month 5 days

T1 Apocalypse ( battleship )…22 days
T2 Apocalypse ( battleship )…2 months 5 days

T2 Nightmare ( battleship )…2 months 28 days
T2 Zealot ( heavy assault cruiser ) 3 months 6 days

So there you go…for once on this forum some actual facts and data rather than people’s opinion.

Thus never mind your silly cruiser ‘facts’…the real facts are that a noob can be flying a frinkin T2 battleship within 3 months. More to the point, loads of people in corps go out in T1 ships. My first missions with Wrecking Machine ( I have done well over 200 now ) were all in T1 cruisers…and I’ve progressed to T2 and battleships over time.

None of the delay in flying big blingy ships ever stopped me flying. So the sort of BS presentation you give is just tiresome.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Aiko_Danuja

Gallente Frigate I
Small Hybrid Turret I

Can be trained in the first few minutes.

My 2 week old noob is already flying the same 750 DPS ganker T2 Catalyst that my main ganker account flies. Fun times ahead as I learn to multibox !

[Nienna_Nannie]

@Minin_alnigh_Lon

I don’t see you come up with good ideas

If you’d read my posts you would know that my goal isn’t to come up with good ideas to replace the Skill Queue. My posts are a critique of it, not a push for CCP to do anything. They usually do whatever they want so I’m not, like some in this thread, under the delusion that they don’t.

@Minin_alnigh_Lon

I don’t know

That is correct.

@Gadget_Helmsdottir

But to get into a usable cruiser that can do the same content is mere days

Sure, an empty Cruiser without any good mods in it.
I can get into a Battleships now, but to fit it properly will take me 2 months at least.

@Gadget_Helmsdottir

The carrot chase keeps new players in the game until they find community

Then prove this.

@Gadget_Helmsdottir

Community keeps the player playing when they have all the skills they want.

Newsflash, new players don’t have “all the skills they want” and the Community has gone Retention nut by giving isk to new applicants and replacement ships now show that this has helped retention.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Hollie_Swoons

Maybe for those who have the illusion that they will conquer the galaxy, no. But not all new players are the same and that’s what’s missing in this thread full of generalities.
My queue is 110 days. Big deal, I plan on playing for much longer than that and while I wait on t2 stuff I can certainly learn and play while waiting. The career agents give free ships and modules. Those are to get blown up in the process of learning.
If someone is so impatient he can buy skill injectors and PLEX and get to fly all the cool stuff then hopefully I’m there to blow him up in his shiny ship.

Some advice for speeding up your training time…

1. Set Biology to Level V…this increases the duration of cerebral boosters to 2 days. Cerebral boosters ( you can buy basic ones for 4m ISK or so ) make skills points arrive faster for a limited period.

2. Set Cybernetics to at least Level IV. That will allow you to use augmentations such as Cybernetic Subprocessor - Standard ( 20m ISK or so ) that add 4 points to your attributes ( for example from 22 to 26 ) and speed up your training time. You need several different ones of these, for the main attributes ( intelligence, perception, willpower, memory ). If you think the risk of getting podded and losing them all is too great…just go for the ones that give 2 points and are only 5m or so each but still knock a few percent off training time.

[Hollie_Swoons]

I didn’t know that about Biology, Cybernetics.
@Altara_Zemara Thank you for the tips!

@Nienna_Nannie

That is correct

You need some People Skills! And trust me, those don’t take 3 months to learn!

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Nienna_Nannie

an empty Cruiser without any good mods

OH BOO HOO HOOO

[Altara_Zemara]

@Kezrai_Charzai

Well, tell you what: why don’t you put together a skill plan for a 5-day old player that wants to end up in a Caracal doing security missions and anomalies and maybe something more down the road.

It can be T1, but please include all the armor, shield, engineering, navigation, targeting, rigging, missile, drone and any other skills you think would be needed for a decent, well-rounded T1 build. The only thing I recall being T2 in the build we recommended was a DCU II.

For my 2 week old noob, it says just 1 day for the ‘T1 Abyssal Caracal’ that is in everyone’s fittings. For the Absolute Order doctrine Caracal ( which uses Arbalest launchers that have greater range than T2 ) it says 5 days.

I hate the Caracal anyway. For most PvE I use Gnosis variants…such as this one that can manage 700 DPS with Conflag…yes…a laser Gnosis. Good tracking, and 32km range with Scorch. Just 6 weeks training for any noob…and they can be in a high DPS battleship with good tank. It’s easy to fit this for scanning stuff, probes, etc as well. The Gnosis is probably the most versatile ship in the game…

High power
5x Heavy Pulse Laser II
Medium power
2x Large Shield Extender II
1x 50MN Microwarpdrive I
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
1x Tracking Computer II
Low power
1x Damage Control II
3x Heat Sink II
1x Tracking Enhancer II
1x Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Rig Slot
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
1x Medium Energy Burst Aerator II
Charges
10x Scorch M
10x Conflagration M
1x Optimal Range Script
Drones
5x Hammerhead I

For scanning combat sites or citadels I use this…cloakable, fast align, and still manages 400 DPS…

High power
4x 250mm Prototype Gauss Gun
1x Improved Cloaking Device II
1x Expanded Probe Launcher I
Medium power
1x Medium Shield Extender II
1x Small Shield Extender II
1x 10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
1x Ship Scanner I
1x Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
1x Data Analyzer I
Low power
1x Damage Control II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
3x Inertial Stabilizers II
Rig Slot
1x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
2x Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Charges
4,000x Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
96x Combat Scanner Probe I
Drones
5x Hammerhead I

[Gadget_Helmsdottir]

@Nienna_Nannie

Sure, an empty Cruiser without any good mods in it.

You seem a bit too attached to high priced things.

The cheaper mods work while the skills for the more expensive mods cook.
Zero game time or fun lost.

@Nienna_Nannie

Then prove this.

Sure. Direct interviews work.

Folks, post what kept you in EvE when you started.

I’ll begin. I wanted to fly a barge, so I stayed and during that time I found people that were fun to play with. Some of them were other miners. Some of them made mining… chancy, but fun.

@Nienna_Nannie

Newsflash, new players

You aren’t here to argue about new players, remember…

–Frugal Gadget sips her just perfect latte

[Sarah_Olson]

@Altara_Zemara

Arbalest launchers that have greater range than T2

Missile launchers don’t give any range bonuses to missiles, T1, Meta4, T2, and faction launchers will all have the same range when using the same missiles.

The only difference between launchers of the same type will be fitting, rof, capacity, and heat damage.

[Hollie_Swoons]

@Nienna_Nannie

I can get into a Battleships now, but to fit it properly will take me 2 months at least

What are you going to do in a Battleship?
From what I read, this is what you need, but I’d put 4 wheels in your case.