Geez, enough with the nit-picking… guess I’ll start calling them the 14 fundamental skills…
Also there’s more than just those 2 skills needed for fitting a ship to be active in space, such as :
Capacitor Management
Capacitor Systems Operation
Warp Drive Operation
Last thing a player needs, especially a new player, is to use up all their Cap by warping into a combat area. And since this game is all about having enough HP’s to survive encounters, the rest of the Magic 14 skills help make that possible.
All of those skills form the basis for fitting that will benefit every single ship a player can pilot in Eve, everything from a shuttle to a titan. If those skills were maxed out with Character Creation, new players would be on a fast track for getting established in Eve. With those skills max trained, it’s much easier to fit up ships and helps increase survivability. With survivability comes retention, with retention comes increased players, with increased players comes more money for CCP.
It’s been a while since I last made that mistake, I forgot how it’s not possible to have a good discussion with you without you making it all about Mr Epeen.
Here’s your mistake: your new character is a veteran player in a noob’s body. Of course you’re going to feel severely limited and like you can’t do anything you’re used to.
But this isn’t how being a new player feels like at all. As a newbro, you are just discovering what you can do on a very basic level - how to steer your ship, navigate the map, buy and sell stuff, fight NPCs, scan, etc. You’re making baby steps, you don’t need a T2 cruiser or Capacitor Systems Operation V for that. You can fly T1 frigates and skill into destroyers and cruisers very quickly. You can go into FW, exploration, mining and ratting on day one. There is no level treshold to enter lowsec, wormholes or null. The scope of possibilities is already huge for a newbie - most of the time their issue is having too many paths to choose from and being confused as to which should they pick, not the other way around.
And why do you think a new player needs to be “competitive” immediately? It’s not possible given the amount of player knowledge and experience that needs to be attained before even hoping to consistently survive in New Eden, to say nothing of actually being “competitive”. And as others pointed out, it’s never been easier for a newbie to hit the ground running with all the freebies and free SP. You think you’re advocating from a newbie’s perspective here but actually you’re unable to step outside your old player POV. This is where ridiculous new player advice like “just put skills into a queue and wait for 6 months before you start playing” comes from.
It gives them a chance to survive. With survivability comes retention, with retention comes increased players, with increased players comes more money for CCP.
It seems like you’re either trolling me or just intentionally being obstinate. Guess it doesn’t really matter since this convo with you is now done…
The idea to drop a newbie somewhere on a steep part of the learning curve without the experience from the valley floor up is not a good one. The newbie would be clueless in a part of the environment that is even less forgiving than at the normal start of his training.
Even if they run out of cap mid-warp, they’ll still run out of cap when they actually warp in to the action…
Heh, who you trying to fool? There’s more skills than just those 2 level 4 skills that you keep focusing on.
If you had actually spent some time helping a new player do a basic fit on their ship, you wouldn’t be spouting all this BS…
Don’t know where you get this ‘Landing in mid-warp’ crap. Hell, most everybody knows that with low Cap skills the ship will run out of gas very quickly and go pop.
You specifically keep mentioning ‘fitting’ when talking about why newbies need the magic 14.
That’s the only reason I talk about those two skills in my arguments against you.
If you had spent time helping new players do a basic fit on their ship, you would have known by now that most of the fitting skills aren’t part of the magic 14.
Yes, I regularly help new players fit their ships. Questions like ‘I have trained powergrid management to 5 but still do not have enough powergrid for this Caracal fit’ are quite common in my newbie-focused alliance.
Shield Upgrades is a common culprit, or Advanced Weapon upgrades.
Did you know that ‘magic 14 to level 5’ still won’t allow new players to copy any ship fit without fitting issues?
Fitting issues are part of EVE. It’s good when new players learn how to work with fits sooner rather than later. ‘Compact’ meta modules, fitting rigs and modules, fitting is an entire game within the game.
Giving new players the ‘magic 14’ at level 5 won’t do much to change that, which is why your argument that newbies need the magic 14 to fit ships is bad.
Even experienced players need to know how to fit their ships and make fitting sacrifices. Either by adding a more expensive faction module to save some CPU, an implant or any of the other fitting tricks EVE gives us.
It’s good that new players get to know that part of the game (ship fitting) early.
And actually, most of the time the solution is “use a better fit”. So very often some newbie asks about how to get more PG and people just start spouting the obvious, which isn’t wrong in and of itself, but almost no one asks and checks to see if the fit that newbie is trying to use isn’t just bad or flat out impossible.
You can make fits work just fine with starter fitting skills, the problem is that most people aren’t actually any good at ship fitting themselves and they certainly don’t know what skills characters start with and what they can get away with, so instead they just go “train skills duh”.
On top of that, some newbie trying to fit dual 150mm rails to a Merlin and is asking about how to get more powergrid isn’t helped with “train skill to 5”.
Wow, you’re like a rabid dog, constantly barking and scratching at anything. Quite frankly, I don’t believe any of the crap you’re posting, especially the part of you helping new players fit up ships.
And yeah, I called them fitting skills, big deal… Training those skills up definitely helps in fitting ships.
Since you have an issue with it, how about you go talk to CCP about the Magic 14…
So because you got your bad arguments called out, you resort to name calling?
Well, if you don’t want to believe me, don’t. There’s plenty of examples for you to see of me helping with fits here on the forums, and more in my alliance’s internal channels if you had access there (which plenty of people in EVE do, it’s riddled with spies ).
But I guess it’s easier to discredit your opponent by claiming they are lying than it is to accept that your argument was bad.
When you call the magic 14 ‘basic fitting skills’ that new players need to 'be able to do a simple basic fit on a T1 Frigate right from the start’, it may suggest that it is the fitting attributes of the magic 14 that you care about.
Then why do you act surprised when people address specifically the fitting skills within the magic 14 when coming up with a counterargument?
Well, the OP’s problem is either this, or that he’s angling for a solution that’s not actually about new players.
The whole “new guy finds out he can’t fit a T2 frigate with T2 guns to be competitive so he quits” reasoning is pretty dodgy. I’ve never seen an actual rookie complain he got dunked by a Worm or Daredevil and, since he can’t fit a Worm/Daredevil of his own on Day 7, he’s done with this stupid game.
Actual rookie concerns:
How do I put ammo in my gun?
I bought an item but I can’t find it.
Why can’t I start this blueprint?
I got a blueprint and started it but didn’t get the item.
I accepted a mission, how do I get to it?
I can’t complete mission X because Y isn’t happening.
And those kind of questions continue for typically the full first week or two. Then they slowly morph into “I completed the tutorial and a career agent…” (often only 1 of the 5)
“What do I do next?”
And then that stage is followed by “what’s the best ship for running level 2 missions?” followed by “How do I make the most ISK?”.
From what I can tell that’s pretty much the experience of 2/3 of new players right there. With (almost) zero instances of “Hey why can’t I fly a pirate frigate or assault frigate fitted with T2 weapons yet?”
The only one here posting a bad argument is you by saying those 14 skills don’t help with fitting ships.
Every one of those skills has a direct effect on every ship in Eve. Every thing from fitting ability to movement capability is touched with those 14 skills. Those skills make ships last longer, move faster, fit better modules, and overall be more efficient. Sure, there’s many other skills that come into play when looking at fitting a ship for tanking, doing damage, etc. However those 14 skills are the basics every Capsuleer should have.
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