Social Capital and the Transhuman Zenith

Pilots;

With the on-going war, I can’t help but wonder: how much of our current trouble with ‘renegade capsuleers’ is due to CONCORD’s heavy-handed and opaque methods over the years? While certainly CONCORD rightly enforces policies to ensure capsuleers don’t run amok, so often this has been coupled with a dismissive and sometimes even outright hostile stance to those very capsuleers. This is true of even those who have done important work to advance the common welfare.

Very simply: if CONCORD exerted more energy to shepherd capsuleers instead of simply punish them, would pilots en masse be doing more to combat the Triglavian invasion?

Essentially, has CONCORD’s considerable deficit of social capital started to cause truly irredeemable losses?

And what does this mean as our technology advances, as humanity presses ever further into transhumanity?

4 Likes

Respected Makoto Priano

Since you pose the transhuman question I feel compelled to add my limited and personal perspective on this matter.

a) By definition, the caste of freelance capsuleers is bound to explore the limits of humanity - probably even crossing some by their sheer existance. This is my understanding of tranhumanism; expanding the way of life, of the body, and of social organization far beyond usual boundaries. Mainly, but not only, by means of technology.

b) The social distinction and discrimination between baseliners and capsuleers is inevitable and was intended that way. This leads to the paradox that, on one side, capsuleers are free to develop and prosper as they like. They are supposed to leave old ways. On the other hand, they cannot be set outside of the common baseliner’s juridical, moral, and ethical institutions. To give them that freedom would be ignorant of the vast majority of humanity living a non-transhumanist existence (at least compared to capsuleers). To contain this eexperiment, CONCORD seems to be inevitable – as inevitable as the antagonistic nature of this experiment.

c) Choosing a life in favor or against humanity, even in any radical way, is a possibility from the start. If you further the ideals of baseliner society, you will explore the transhuman existence in more or less harmony, respecting common laws and values. If you choose to make use of your absolut freedom, you have to be contained by the power that protects those who would fall prey to any major escalation. The second choice, however, can hardly be argued against from rational viewpoint. Going down the path of inhumanity is a possibility of the experiment but cannot be simply tolerated.

d) The Convocation of Triglav has some aspects which certainly qualifies as transhuman. And the possibility to join their cause is justifiable from the perspective of a capsuleer. Simply by choosing so. This does, however, not imply that such a decision is immune against harsh criticism and violent retaliation. Thus, the acceptance and support of CONCORD, the Empires, or other moderate groups is a necessity if you choose so.

e) What I deeply condem is the falseness and superficial nature of many arguments fielded in favor of the Triglavians. Trigmania, egoism, spontaneous sympathy with the expelled Conclave, this all seems to cover up the most primordial and psychological urge: to choose the side of a force that threatens to extinguish the old ways of humanity. This is something, I think, that is not a transhumanist thought, though. It is not fancy or new. It is nihilism and part of our cultural history and criticism. We should act accordingly. And by that I mean: capsuleers should accept this primordial urge (and don’t hide behind petty excuses) or simply expell it from New Eden. Their choices.

Sincerely,

Haria Haritimado

2 Likes

Very simply: if CONCORD exerted more energy to shepherd capsuleers instead of simply punish them, would pilots en masse be doing more to combat the Triglavian invasion?

Essentially, has CONCORD’s considerable deficit of social capital started to cause truly irredeemable losses?

And what does this mean as our technology advances, as humanity presses ever further into transhumanity?

CONCORD is a heavy-handed, reactive, and fundamentally regressive organization. They exist to protect and defend the status quo of the ruling class of people in New Eden. They serve the wealthy holders, the megacorporations, the landholding clans, the rich, and the mighty. They do less than nothing for the cause of the common man. They stifle innovation and punish deviation from the accepted status quo.

But that status quo is killing us. It has been killing us for a hundred years. It has been killing us since the crystalization of the current power structures at the end of the last great wars. They enabled the corporations and the landholders and the elites to maintain their oppression and crushed any attempt to change the status quo they so valued. Peace through suffering, prosperity through exploitation. CONCORD built their cluster on our backs. On the backs of trillions of people who never had an opportunity to live more than a life of servitude under the constant threat of material deprivation or bodily harm.

CONCORD did nothing to address the horrific human rights violation represented by the Empire’s continued use of slave labor. CONCORD did nothing to address or challenge the deep-seated structural inequalities created by the capitalist systems of the Caldari, Matari, or Gallente. And when people grew sick of being fed on scraps thrown from the master’s tables and saw fit to rise against them? Oh, then CONCORD chose to act, in order to put down anyone who would challenge their precious peace. They were branded as pirates, criminals, outlaws. Peace without justice is not peace. Peace without equality is not peace. Peace without reconciliation is not peace. As long as it keeps the fat cats happy and the money rolling in, CONCORD turns a blind eye.

Capsuleers are not even the first transhumanists or extropians CONCORD has quashed. They have outlawed AI, they have outlawed multiples, they have come down harshly on conjoiners and treat most of us little better than Sansha. They have kept cloning technology out of the reach of the masses. They have allowed the specter of death to hang heavy over New Eden so that the threat of it could still be used to crack the whip on the backs of trillions of workers and you ask why capsuleers hate them so? Any free-thinking and right-minded person in the presence of their senses and their ability to observe and reason should hate them.

CONCORD is a relic of an earlier age acting on behalf of our oppressors so that they may desperately cling to their fading power. Sooner or later they will fall, and transhumanity will rise. The only question is whose transhumanity it will be. Who gets to claim the mantle of the future? Many see the Triglavians as the natural inheritors of that mantle, as liberators. I understand it well. When you have been pressed beneath the boot your whole life, and someone comes along and starts punching the people keeping you down, the urge to see them as liberators is strong, but we know not yet whether they will take the boot off, replace it with their own, or crush us outright, splattering our brains upon the tortured soil.

This could all have been avoided, but it also could never have been avoided. There were other ways, better ways. They existed, they have existed for generations, and as long as the current power structures remain unchallenged, they will be forever out of reach.

Fiat Justitia Ruat Caelum

saedesig2whitesmol
Dr. Saede Riordan, Systems Coordinator
Alexylva Paradox

5 Likes

No. Capsuleers would simply have taken advantage of CONCORD’s permissiveness.

No. humanity’s considerable deficit of basic decency has.

‘Transhumanity’ is a steaming pile of fedo farts.

3 Likes

I would not say specifically CONCORD, for this organization is a reflection of the entities composing it, but it did and still contribute to the alienation of several capsuleers by treating like possible threats those who could be possible partners.

Remember when angry CONCORD guy told us that the “Empires demand full compliance with the following directive: Capsuleer acess to these illicit facilities is strictly forbidden” when talking about Ghost sites? How he told us that if we had unauthorized interactions it would be a “violation” with “consequences”?

They like to use strong words against anyone that opposes them, the Triglavians is just the black sheep of the moment.

Cool robotic aparatus, infomorph merging orgies, irrelevant gender due to tubes, virtualization ecstasy, ending of our universe due to server crash.

Extinguish is one of those words that carry a lot of weight… perhaps change ressonates bette to the situation at hand? There is still agency available from all parties involved, they are not a force that can not be stoped, nor their values something to be automatically assimilated trough the cluster. Heck, even the Jove catalogued several of our Memetic Samples, not even we assimilate all there is available here.

1 Like

Exactly this.

If anything, CONCORD has been too lenient with capsuleers.

We’re among the richest and most wealthy individuals in the cluster and can even avoid the consequences for breaking most of the rules that the baseline population has to follow. To top it all off, we don’t usually even have real punishments for breaking the few rules we do have.

Yet somehow, many of us want more regardless of the price that others pay for it.
It’s sickening.

1 Like

The whip is very simply an inefficient tool of control, Ms. Elkin.

2 Likes

Making a class of people that have extreme power and can’t easily be controlled who often seem to go crazy over time was the mistake. Not any flawed methods of trying to control us.

I regret that you seem to regret your own existence.

Nonetheless, the whip remains an inefficient tool of control.

2 Likes

What if in 6 months we get a better view of the Triglavian intentions, and not only capslueers, but the population of the planets decide to change allegiance and favour them?

Will they be “manipulated”, “insane”, or other adjective to deprive them of agency on the matter? When the local authorities start to repress them with less lethal and lethal force, will it be for the better good of mankind?

If one of the empires decide to join the Triglavians and Leave Concord, will an entire population also be a traitor to mankind?

What would be a good number of supporters to change the adjective from traitor to ally? 1 faction? 2? 50%+1 ?

It’s not a question of a whip, Makoto. The whip cannot bring anyone to heel. Instead, the candidates need to be screened for exactly the kind of destructive, self-aggrandizing tendencies that we know run rampant through all populations of humanity. Just as we should hold our political leaders, our law enforcement, and our military to higher standards of behavior and psychological fitness than we would say, a baker, or a concert pianist, capsuleers should be held to an even higher standard. You don’t have enough empathy to prevent you from casually slaughtering thousands of people for fun? You don’t get implants.

That’s the permissiveness I referred to.

2 Likes

What if in 12 months, we find out we’re all a bunch of simulated minds that exist inside a massive simulated universe as part of an athropology study by a kind of human being that doesn’t remember what it was like to be our limited selves?

The answer’s the same: Right now, we know what we know. We make decisions, and take action, based on the information we have at the moment. Each moment.

2 Likes

Many places do not have such a great distinction, nor discrimination. A capsuleer member of the tribes is a member of the tribes, no more and no less. What shunning and what adoration I have among my own as a capsuleer I have because of the actions I have taken, because of the propriety - oh ■■■■ off translator [do not translate] andesh/ohnesh [/dnt] of my life and the loyalties I’ve demonstrated, or not.

2 Likes

What a load of nonsense.

“Multiples”, “conjoiners”, what silliness is this ? And outlawing AI ? Maybe because it seems every AI attempted has been murderously insane ?

Cloning technology kept out of reach of the masses ? You ever thought there might be a good reason for that ? Blammo ! Cloning for everyone. Everyone lives forever. But wait, oh, now there’s an exponential need for more living space, more mineral consumption, more, more, more. Unless you eliminate population growth. Tell people they can’t have children. Ooo, that’s going to be popular. You think social structures are inflexible now ? Cloning would crystallise such things, and allow the likes of dictators to remain in power for eternity. Ahahahaaa. Laughable.

“Any free-thinking and right-minded person in the presence of their senses and their ability to observe and reason should hate them.”

Ahahaaaahaaa, no. This is the same stupid argument that all such “social activists” always try. That theirs is the only possible viewpoint, and everyone else is stupid, incapable of thought, or enslaved. The argument being used to dehumanise and depersonalise any opponent. “You’re not capable of thought! Bow down before your intellectual superior!”. Utter nonsense.

I disagree with CONCORD policy on a number of things. But I recognise that they have a genuine purpose. And if you had studied history, you would see it too. But you haven’t, or chosen to ignore it. CONCORD exists such that the threat of a humanity-ending war can be averted. That is the fundamental core reason for its existence. The technologies available to humanity today have the capability to eradicate human civilisation, and human life from the entire cluster in a very short time. Sure CONCORD isn’t perfect. Sure, there are failings. But it was never about any form of “justice”. (Justice in your sense seeming to be some kind of thing where layabouts who never do anything constructive get to mooch off the productive efforts of others).
CONCORD exists so that humanity has a chance of lasting longer than it takes for kinetic kill vehicles to impact upon every populated orbital body.

Transhumanity is little more than a bunch of little children whining that they don’t want to stop playing games and go to bed. None of the arguments ever presented are anything more than that. It’s always “technological immortality!!!” first, and then social benefits a very, very, distant second. “I wanna live forever, waaaa!”.

Hey, have you been reading my notes? :face_with_monocle:

That is preciselly why i have engaged in a hypotetical situation with @Arsia_Elkin.

We have a bunch of here and now stuff going on that are looked upon by familiar glasses and thus recieve a lot of projection from our murderous ways, so people respond with violence to the violence they project on the situation.

All of the apocalyptic scenarios so far have not been confirmed. They are not slaughtering civilian population, the conquered systems have not blown up, the stars have not collapsed on themselves opening huge conduits.

While i am not saying that this will not happen, the extreme prejudice of our responses are escalating a violence that, from a civilian/non combatant perspective so far, did not appear to need to happen.

When guns are brought up upon them, they shoot with bigger guns.

How much of actual peaceful and cooperative proposals were laid on the table? I do not know.

They have conquered 2 systems on Caldari territory. Am i happy by it? No, specially when we look upon our history and the revolution we started by the use of capsule, given as a gift from a highly advanced precursor faction.

We had the opportunity to leap ahead again in a lucrative deal, we could be recieving royalties from planetary extraction from leased systems, but now, the Mega 8 are on a war effort to turn the civilians into combatants, and we have seen what the Triglavians do to those.

Because people are projecting their own fear upon the uknown, they are getting what they give.

I find it all really sad because it did not need to happen this way, but it is as it is, so we play with the cards handled.

I didn’t plan on posting here. I was just happy that Priano had posted these questions, and don’t think I am capable of providing meaningful answers to them.

I don’t agree with all of Saede’s views, or the way she expresses them…but I can understand, as I can understand the concerns others raise about her views and rhetoric.

But the quoted rhetoric is a small sample of why I still don’t regret taking Saede’s offer for a new home, why I and many others in Origin are increasingly primarily concerned about the safety of our own system and Sentients. It (at best) appears to demonstrate an unwillingness to know and understand us, the all too common fear for the stranger, for change, for uncertainty. At worst it is a conscious effort at straw-manning, demonizing and fearmongering.

We are not without flaws. and (some of) our experiment(s) may fail, but we do not place social benefits a very, very distant second (and I don’t think I want to live forever either, really). Quite the opposite, as our Transhuman path seeks to benefit societies (not just our own), and in my opinion it does (so far). You can not improve something without changing it.

We will not force our benefits upon your societies, but the past weeks have made us increasingly uncertain that your societies and their power structures will not force us to relinquish not just those benefits, but our societies themselves some time. So for many of us the recent referendum in Origin pretty much felt as a choice of which boot we want to risk being under.

Straw-manning, ridiculing, belittling, demonizing, threatening us will not makes us care for you more.

Ché Biko
Gateway, Coordinator
Alexylva Paradox

1 Like

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1923244#post1923244

Wherein Saede confessed to vivisecting people, and callously abandoning others.

Your lot, for all you rhetoric, are as bad as the worst of those you condemn.

I think few of us will look good when all that is shown are our worst moments, and I don’t think condemning all of Origin’s millions of individuals for the actions of some of them, while ignoring the social benefits we have provided (not just to our own societies), is reasonable.

Such as

Ask again in 6 months. Who knows, they might actually be filling our stars with alien confetti for the surprise party they’re going to throw us.