Solved: The Purpose of the Minmatar People

[Malcolm_Khross]

@Bravo_Atruin

Oohhh… Oh damn. This kinda explains the Caldari Navy’s response to the invasions. Gotta be like everybody else, so gotta ECM the same target, gotta leave their ship’s resist profiles unmodified…

Not precisely. We Caldari prefer conformity and uniformity but not to the extreme that we’re all doing the same things at the same time. If all laborers perform the same work then many tasks are not completed. If all administrators administered in the same way then nothing would ever change and we would become stagnant and irrelevant.

In military operations there is no principle that says we must all operate the same way at the same time, this appears to be simply an example of a poorly executed response to the situation at hand. It can happen even to a seasoned military unit but it certainly should not become the norm.

[Bravo_Atruin]

It happened a lot. It was the norm. Dunno if the same procedures are in play still, but it was a huge problem.

[Aria_Jenneth]

There’s no question that things didn’t go as they were supposed to, Mr. Atruin, but Mr. Khross is correct that the Caldari approach to unity and conformity is in no way simple-minded. Caldari engineering is intricate, its beauty and grace found in utility. That applies whether you’re talking about machinery, electronics, or Caldari society itself (and is one reason I’m convinced the apparent attempt to recreate ancient bloodlines through selective breeding is purposeful).

Something obviously went badly wrong. Exactly what, remains to be seen, but it won’t have been anything quite so stupid.

[Saronu_Yassavi]

I have some reservations in weighing in here, while many objectionable positions are adequately spoiled by the chaotic progression of this thread. Certain foreigners continue to make explanations of the Empire as they would prefer it, not as it is– that is something I do feel requires an answer.

Mr. Nauplius is as usual making a lunatic argument in the general proximity of a mainstream viewpoint, but for the importance of lineage to have been dismissed as an obsession unique to him is deaf to at least the past seven millennia of our history, the assiduity with which our forebears made their matches, and to a greater extent their conformity to Scripture, have always been the weft that bind the fabric of Amarr society.

[Miran_Tereven]

@Mizhir

So people might as well produce offspring with partners who carries a different genetic background to even out the flaws from your own.

Firstly, I believe that it is entirely possible to select a spouse from a different genetic background from amongst the pool of unmarried Civire. That, however, does not enter the equation. It is primarily done on the basis of physical similarities, personality matching and one’s station and wealth. The end result is sustainable and equitable marriages which show deference towards our ancestors. And if there was such a thing as flaws within the entire Civire genepool, it would not enter the equation. This is about tradition, not eugenics. One plays with the cards life deals them.

@Lasairiona_Raske

It never ceases to amaze me how often very questionable practices are defended by people as cultural tradition.

We are our own masters, and we will command our worlds and our families as we deem fit. That is a right we have had to fight for over the course of centuries in order to escape the cultural imperialism of the ethnic Gallente. Of all people in this cluster, I would expect someone of Minmatar descent to understand the importance of values and independence one’s people have fought and died for.

@Aria_Jenneth

The main issue I have with it, sir, is that it makes reverence for the ancestors a basis for systematic cruelty to the living, in ways official and unofficial. If I weren’t a capsuleer it’d likely be difficult for me to find work, or an officially sanctioned partner.

I’m still an Achur, but I have no illusions I’m welcome back home. Part of that is because of my past, which, also, is tangled up in this. My predecessor regarded herself as a curse on our clan-- a vengeful ghost. But, I was my family’s shame even before that. That, mostly, is what she saw herself avenging.

I’m safely away, now, living comfortably in another nation-- one which, Mr. Nauplius aside, is not so obsessed with the horrid mixing of bloodlines. Maybe it’s cowardly of me to speak from such a perspective, but it’s precisely because I am not risking losing my position or becoming a Dissoc that I can speak this freely. Other jaalan like me would run a great risk in letting themselves be identified, especially already carrying the stigma of mixed blood.

My predecessor’s pain was a lot of why she became the person she did, Mr. Khross. I don’t share it, and I do hold a lot of affection for the State. But while some friends tell me otherwise, try to persuade me I’d find the same warmth and companionship among my fellow State nationals that I find here in the Society, I know that they’re the exception, not the rule.

The State values conformity, and I’m bad at that, right down to my blood. It’s mostly my privileged status that’s allowed me to escape at all. If I returned I’d never be really accepted.

That’s just how it is. But I won’t pretend to like it.

Whilst I believe it to be of grave importance to uphold our traditions, I do not believe it necessary to punish people who don’t as harshly as they are. I have heard stories of young mothers and their children being killed by mobs, and I think this crosses a line. To that end, I am glad that you have found a place where you are happy.

@Bravo_Atruin

Oohhh… Oh damn. This kinda explains the Caldari Navy’s response to the invasions. Gotta be like everybody else, so gotta ECM the same target, gotta leave their ship’s resist profiles unmodified…

This is not a suitable subject for comedy.

@Saronu_Yassavi

I have some reservations in weighing in here, while many objectionable positions are adequately spoiled by the chaotic progression of this thread. Certain foreigners continue to make explanations of the Empire as they would prefer it, not as it is– that is something I do feel requires an answer.

Mr. Nauplius is as usual making a lunatic argument in the general proximity of a mainstream viewpoint, but for the importance of lineage to have been dismissed as an obsession unique to him is deaf to at least the past seven millennia of our history, the assiduity with which our forebears made their matches, and to a greater extent their conformity to Scripture, have always been the weft that bind the fabric of Amarr society.

I appreciate your perspective. I will add that I was not attempting to suggest our ways are right for everyone. I was trying to articulate that a Khanid with a questionable interpretation of the Amarrian faith should not be telling Amarrians how to live their lives, especially not if said instructions are essentially “go commit adultery”.

[Sah_Phyre]

@Miran_Tereven

I have heard stories of young mothers and their children being killed by mobs, and I think this crosses a line.

The worst of these excesses seem to have happened during the thankfully short-lived Provist reign, not that I can or wish to make light of Aria’s account, given my own family’s experiences. It takes exceptional audacity, composure and social standing to be able to step out of line in regards to procreation in the State, and the few that do always underestimate the weight of the stigma about to befall them.

Hence, even in the absence of external violence, it often ends in tragedy as someone finally snaps – if not the parents, then their children.

[Arrendis]

@Sah_Phyre

the thankfully short-lived Provist reign

They’re not gone. They’re not even really hidden. Let down your guard for a moment, and they’ll be back—probably under the guise of bringing the Navy under more direct Corporate control after some disastrous hostile invasion or something.

[Miran_Tereven]

@Arrendis

They’re not gone. They’re not even really hidden. Let down your guard for a moment, and they’ll be back—probably under the guise of bringing the Navy under more direct Corporate control after some disastrous hostile invasion or something.

That already happened, just without the Provists.

This of course did not change anything, because the problems were of a technical nature.

[Diana_Kim]

Ladies and gentlemen! I understand that our State is the best and there are dozens of GalNet trolls that are jumping out just to insult our way of life, but can we return to the topic at hand, please? After all, it’s about Minmatar and Amarr, not Caldari. Though, I am afraid I’ll have to speak myself about Caldari as well since the issue which was risen is quite sensitive.

I’ve already pointed to Mr.@Nauplius on a mistake he did when he made a difference between genders in the issue: you get halfbreed disregarding if you mate Amarr with Minmatar or Minmatar with Amarr. And he already replied he wasn’t profecient enough to argument, so I have asked him to retract the statement… unfortunately it wasn’t done so yet.

Ms. @Miran_Tereven, I am sorry that you have been jumped like that by that pirate, unfortunately I myself have experienced quite a lot of attacks that were made on our culture due to blatant ignorance, especially when your statement was absolutely correct, both from factual and moral points of view.

Though I will disagree with Mr. @Malcolm_Khross politely. As far as I have heard, the question of maintaining bloodlines have scientific backgrounds as well, many eugenicists study this issue and are working in corporate marriage agencies to make our bloodlines stronger by proper matching.

Ms. @Aria_Jenneth, there is actually nothing wrong in being half-breed in the State, as long as you represent yourself as a capable, moral and hard-working person. The only difference with other Citizens is that you won’t be offered a spouse, but that’s not really important. Think about bees, for example, not every bee is a queen which produces offspring, most of them just do their job. You are not a “bad bee” just because you aren’t a queen. It’s not our genetics decide whom we grow, but our actions, our decisions, the paths we take and the paths we avoid.

We cannot change who we are, we can only accept it and live with it, after all - it’s just another test Winds have prepared for us. Making half-breed children I will consider an offense and crime, an abuse of children. But being born as one you didn’t do anything wrong, and feel free to wreck people noses if they insult you over it: you are not worse than them, and you have all the possibilities the Maker granted you to prove it! Go ahead, and prove them all you’re better.

Keep in mind, that people who are struggling trying to change whom they were born are nothing but cowards and pathetic weaklings who can’t accept the reality. If you’re strong, wear your imperfection as your shield, and wear your dedication as your sword.

I hope to see you back in the State, with your shield and your sword.

[Arrendis]

Wow. Way to miss my implications.

[Nauplius]

@Diana_Kim

you get halfbreed disregarding if you mate Amarr with Minmatar or Minmatar with Amar

Have you considered that an Amarr-Minmatar chimera, while a bad thing, is nonetheless preferable to a full blooded Minmatar, and thus the womb of a Minmatar mistress, if it must be filled with something, ought better to be filled with a chimera than a full Minmatar?

[Diana_Kim]

@Nauplius

Have you considered that an Amarr-Minmatar chimera, while a bad thing, is nonetheless preferable to a full blooded Minmatar, and thus the womb of a Minmatar mistress, if it must be filled with something, ought better to be filled with a chimera than a full Minmatar?

No, it’s not, because a full Minmatar is a full Minmatar. It is pure and simple.
Chimera, on the other hand… could be anything. It could appear as 100% Amarr. It could appear as 100% Minmatar. It is a bloodline without name that cannot be characterized properly. Would you like, for example, to meet someone who appears completely like Amarr, but behaves like completely Minmatar? You think THAT would be better? Would you like to see someone with appearance of a Noble Lord, dancing naked around fire with body covered in tattoos?? Is this what you want??

[Arrendis]

Not if they’re, y’know, hideous or nuffin’.

[Sah_Phyre]

@Arrendis

Let down your guard for a moment, and they’ll be back

Well, I have faith in the Caldari leadership to not allow this sort of thing happen twice, especially within one generation.

Then again, why would anything nice ever happen?

[Arrendis]

@Sah_Phyre

Well, I have faith in the Caldari leadership to not allow this sort of thing happen twice, especially within one generation.

It’s already happening. People just don’t want to see it. Honestly, what makes people think one group of power-hungry authoritarians is any different from another? Any differences are superficial, at best, and directional at worst (ie: just the same except ‘we’ get the power, not ‘them’).

[Bravo_Atruin]

@Miran_Tereven

This is not a suitable subject for comedy.

Apologies, this wasn’t intended as comedy, although I will admit some gallows humor from the engagements in question may have snuck in there. And, as subsequent posts have demonstrated, I clearly do not have a full grasp on the situation, only connecting a few dots that I could see.

@Diana_Kim

It’s not our genetics [that] decide [as, into] whom we grow, but our actions, our decisions, the paths we take and the paths we avoid.

[possible translator errors, possible corrections added in brackets]
If I’m understanding this sentence correctly, we can certainly agree on this.

@Arrendis

Honestly, what makes people think one group of power-hungry authoritarians is any different from another? Any differences are superficial, at best, and directional at worst (ie: just the same except ‘we’ get the power, not ‘them’).

At the risk of sounding like a malfunctioning audio recording, this is part of the problem I have with all five empires. I include the Kybernauts and Triglavian Collective in this count as a fifth because they have fallen into the same failings.

[Lasairiona_Raske]

This has just devolved into a discussion that makes me feel absolutely disgusted.

[Tyrel_Toov]

Oh, this didn’t devolve into anything. It started as a wretched pile of fedo ■■■■ and has remained as such for the duration.

[Diana_Kim]

It looks like that only because you have posted here and the previous poster who is in this regard is just like you.

I disagree with Mr. Nauplius, and I wrote why and how. But no, trolls like you an Raske can only bark out your bile at those whom you disagree with without bringing any substantial objections. You’re like crying kids who are stomping your feet at those whom you dislike in impotent rage.
Enough. Stop already. You two are just embarassing yourself and surely don’t make Nauplius look worse, despite it’s clearly something you had in your tiny brains. All you achieve is make us, readers, and all those who come actually to speak and discuss our points of view, our mistakes, learn from each other - you make us disgusted with your utter incompetence, utter incompetence in both as galnet speakers and just incompetence as human beings.

You don’t deserve to speak about wretched pile of fedo ■■■■, just because YOU are the one who brings it into discussions.