If thats your reading of it, I dunno what to tell you.
You and the main offender are two people who chose to disagree with him, and so are part of the derailing.
The fact of the matter is he made one solid point that was a pretty obvious (and Id have thought) indisputable fact and that person spent a day telling him black was white.
Im not sure what you think you are going to acheive by doing… this, because its not going to convince me either.
Im not Lucas’ number one fan, not by a long shot and he’ll confirm, but his point was made in good faith, is true and he wasnt even the first to open the adhominen can so vOv.
I never argued against the definition of pay to win. Nor did I defend that other person that was.
I was arguing against the idea that skill points inherently means you are doing better in the game and that it can be boiled down to a simple yes/no.
I’m not sure what you mean by “this” however my point is we’ve just got past this whole definition of PTW and got the thread back on track, let’s not start up again as no one but that one person disagreed with it and that whole tangent ceased being relevant pages ago.
Thats part of the question those two were debating, so to leap in with it on one side of the argument means you were involved. Im not sure how you dont see that but there we are.
I mean by you restarting it by arguing with me about it.
If you think its over, dont start it again.
If someone else is to blame in your eyes (me) then dont engage if you dont want an argument.
I added my support for Kell’s point, and you replied, so get the timing right first.
So two wrongs make a right? Im allowed to express my discomfort at 9 hrs of someone saying black is white if I choose. If you wish to continue it be my guest but you are the one choosing to argue it with me. Im not forcing you. So dont blame me for an argument you are choosing to have.
You were using it to attempt to undermine Lucas position while he was engaged in defending the self-evident point that selling SP is one of several P2W features in EvE.
If you were trying to pull the thread “on topic” then perhaps one that genuinely was on topic (the GOOD OR BAD of SP sales not their validity as proof of P2W) then a seperate post not directed into the fight would be what youd have done.
No Im telling you what the obvious outcome was. You really are just looking for an argument this morning, arent you? Hows that for guessing your intent.
The fact you quoted someone immeadiately undermines that position. The person quoted would automatically be alerted and assume it as a response.
If you dont want me to guess your intent, can you tell me why you have chosen to argue with me in regards to my assertation that Kell is correct, right down to semantics about posting methods? As this entire exchange is wildly off topic.
I dont care if it is but you seem to believe you have some duty to put it back on topic and Id like to inform you that you are failing badly in that duty.
We can already get 1mil sp for free when we link to a friend’s account. What would be a comfortable limit as far as sp for sale?
I think 10mil sp would be a good mark. Although I don’t see why we’d need a limit. We can buy as much PLEX as we want so one could argue that unlimited PLEX could buy unlimited sp.
It’s a tough question but I think the limit should be no more than it takes to finish a couple of skills. That’s often the difference between you being able to get into a doctrine and fly with your buddies or not.
More than that can be grinded out in game anyhow as long as there are enough injectors on the market.
I agree with you. With the caveat that some of those sales are helping to keep the lights on. There is more insentive to buy something by tangible in game than there is to buy a cosmetic.
I agree but I think more is made of CCP alienating their player base than is fair.
When eve came out it was the best thing going for someone looking at a space sim. However we know there were people who didn’t really enjoy everything EVE was because they used to ask for EVE offline! Those people would have left when X3 came out. Similarly there will have been people that were better suited to space engineers and no man’s sky and so on.
There is a lot out there now and we were naturally going to lose some people along the way. Once upon a time everyone played MOO2 because that is all we had.
I think there is a natural level of attrition in games and selling skill packs might easily balance that by making getting started in eve a little easier to access.
Agreed. It would also be nice if there was a way to limit SP sales to newer accounts. Like, only claimable on characters under 10 million SP or something.
That said, if a player was to buy every instant-SP package on the list, they’d be dropping $265 to acquire 3.9 million SP and 7.5 months worth of Omega. All as one-time purchases. That seems reasonable in the context of the game. Especially since IMO almost nobody would drop the $40 for the 1.5M SP boost - it’s just too expensive.
Also agreed that the slow accumulation of SP when there’s something specific you want to get to is pretty frustrating. I’ve stated in the past that this in effect makes EVE’s business model “P2W - Pay to Wait”. And I’ve personally known of cases where people basically paid their sub, set up their training queue, and then went to play other games for 2-3 months while the SP ticked away.
As for earning SP in game, I think that would be wise for CCP to do to encourage more active play at this point. I’d prefer not to see them as “drops” because that could easily lead to farming. But something like the AIR Career program, or the original Opportunities program - where you have a tree of activities/events to achieve and you would earn SP from completing items on the list.
So long as direct SP isn’t repeat-buyable and isn’t priced lower than injectors, I don’t see it causing significant problems for the game.
Oh yeah agree. What I mean is that there were people who were playing eve because it was the best of what was there for them but not necessarily the game they wanted to be playing because it hadn’t been created yet.
That’s true even now, I think what we need right now is a re-skin of cookie clicker where you orbit the suspiciously chocolate chippy asteroid in different ships from venture up to rorqual as you progress. Then all the players who complain about ganking can go play that and watch their numbers get bigger and we can focus on making EVE right for people that are playing the right game for them.
That’s exactly me, two times now I quit eve after setting long skill queues and simply forgot about the game because I got sucked into something else. Thankfully I’m now at the point where I have enough SP to sustain a pvp habit.
The argument was never about his ‘definition’. It was about his self-contradictory use of it. The manner in which he agreed that pay to win does not guarantee ‘winning’…yet he insists that it gives an ‘advantage’. 400 posts of semantic hair splitting.