Standings Screen Changes & General Soapbox


(Imiarr Timshae) #1

Hello all,

Those of you who know me know that I’m “the guy” for standings in this game. Skip this bit if you do, go to the next line break.

I founded the first standings service - large scale commercial standings selling in 2009, The Standing Correction Agency old forum link I have written the syllabus for EUNI on standings and how they function link.

I’ve been mentioned in blog posts, reddit, reccomended all over the place.

I had an Eve News article in 2014 to celebrate 5 years of service which unfortunately misquoted me, to the point of literally fabricating statements, and included obvious edits “I’m tired of being getting scammed” Link but indicates the general level of my presence if you don’t know me.

What most people don’t know is that I have fielded around a dozen questions more or less daily for 8 years about standings. I have become the “catch all” knowledgebase for newbies, veterans, nullsec dwellers who have never used them and so forth. I’ve been happy to spend my time doing this because I feel - in fact I am absolutely certain - that the game would be worse without someone doing this. “How do I get standings?” “I was shot by customs teams :(” “Why is my amarr standing dropping when I am working for gallente?” and so forth. For years. I reply to all of them.

One of the main reasons that we’ve survived so long - and destroyed all competition - is because I have been here for eight years. I am committed.

That is my introduction, so you understand where I am coming from.


CCP have changed the standings window. This is not the first time they have done something which directly impacts my ability to do what I do.

Back in pre-2010, I don’t remember when, we could view standings directly. We could look at another character and there was a tab which showed their standings. Within about a year of my service existing, and getting big, this was removed. We survived that.

The standings window we have been given is not something which I believe I can continue to work with. I have used spreadsheets for many years which look at a person’s current standing, then we look at the modifier given by a mission completion (the ‘raw’ standing) and then calculates the result.

The calculation looked like this:

=(10-Current standing)*Modifier/100+Current standing

So, as an example. If someone had 1.00, and gained 0.550 standing:

=(10-1.00)*0.550/100+1.00
It would result in showing me 1.050.

The luxury being that by being given the raw modified standings increase in four digits, I could calculate standing accurately despite CCP rounding the actual standings amount to 1.05 or whatever. My sheet could show me the actual value.

I have used this method to calculate standings for people for years - to design custom spreadsheets to help people understand how many epic arcs and storylines they must complete to fix their standings, how many times someone can do a mission before being shot by Amarr etc.


So here are my problems:

  1. The new standings window has taken this ability from players. By giving change value rather than the raw numbers, it’s no longer possible for me to assist people in this way. If standings were shown as 3 decimal numbers i.e 3.456 rather than rounded 2 decimals i.e 3.46 it would be possible for me to reverse engineer the raw standings, but unfortunately because change is 0.000 and standings is only 2 decimal, all math will forever be approximate and imperfect. A huge part of how I helped people understand standings in the game and provide clear, easy, calculated advice, and even handed out spreadsheets for people to use for themselves is gone and as far as I can tell, irreperable. It makes people working out how many times they need to do something to get to a goal impossible, for no reason.

  2. If you read my news article in 2014, flawed though it is, one of the clear complaints I have is that the derived standing mechanic is not made clear to rookies at any point. Not in tutorials. Not in standings windows. Nowhere. A huge proportion of the grief caused by these mechanics is simply that people do missions and ruin standings to other parties because no-one ever explained derived mechanics. The new standings window still does not adequately indicate derived standings mechanics to players. It might sound simple to you “They will just notice Amarr falling as they do Gallente”, all I can tell you is that this is NOT the case. The old screen could give this information if it was looked for and people simply didn’t. People have quit the game over this guidance/tutorial/UI flaw.

  3. I am worried that CCP is making changes like this without any kind of thought about the people who are tied in to the systems they are changing. They certainly don’t have any obligation to talk to me, or their players, about these things, but this change has directly harmed the community and the ability of someone who has assisted the community for 8 years in what they do. As a player who has been ingame for 12 years now, and is clearly here to try to compensate for failings inherent in the system, being stymied by ill-thought or purposeless changes is incredibly disheartening.


To be clear, my commercial standings business will not change. We have already transitioned to a system that uses the API. I am not pointing the above out for any personal “gain”. It’s purely because the spreadsheets I have designed are in use all over the place and the data we were given has changed without much of an apparent reason.

This issue could be solved by:

  1. Make the standings transaction log such that it shows both Standing, change and raw standings.

  2. Make the standings transaction log such that if double clicked, a mission will show its raw standing value.

  3. Show standings at 3.xxx, three decimal points, so that it can be calculated in line with the three decimal point change value given. This would still require extensive calculation on my part so my preference is either of the above.

Thanks for reading. I hope it wasn’t as boring as writing it was :slight_smile:


(Krima Sumyungi) #2

TL;DR.

Never heard of you.


(Imiarr Timshae) #3

Yeah it works like that :slight_smile:

Have you tried to purchase standings? If no… etc :smiley:


(DeMichael Crimson) #4

I recognize your name, acknowledge and applaud the work you’ve done over the years. You’ve definitely helped a lot of players.

However, referring to yourself as “the guy” for standings in this game seems a bit over the top, especially since your business was centered mainly on helping players gain Corporation standings.

When I first started playing this game in mid 2008, I spent a long stretch of time mission running for Thukker Tribe to gain LP’s for Thukker Shield Extenders. As such I found myself close to the brink of being unable to enter Empire space to sell those Thukker Shield Extenders. After exhaustive amounts of inquiries about Faction standings, I realized the general consensuses in-game and in the forums was that players could only be positive with one side of allied Factions, either Amarr & Caldari or Gallente & Minmatar.

Needless to say that was unacceptable and after 3 months of vigorous research in mid 2009, I gathered together all available info on different Event Agents that gave Faction standing increase and devised a plan on how to use them to gain positive standings with all Empire Factions. After developing and checking ‘The Plan’ to make sure it worked, I then created and or did constant extensive editing on Evelopedia pages for Tutorial Agents, Career Agents, Circle Agents, Data Center Agents, Cosmos Agents and Epic Arcs as well as created and or edited mission reports in Eve Survival pertaining to those Agents.

After making sure all initial reference material was available with links, I then shared the ‘Faction Standing Repair Plan’ with the Eve Online community in Feb 2010 which basically changed the way players viewed and worked with Faction standings in-game. Since then I have kept ‘The Plan’ updated and have striven to help answer Faction standing questions in these forums. Personally I know that ‘The Plan’ has helped hundred’s of players, more than likely it has helped even more players than I could imagine.

Over time a lot of my work has been ‘Copy & Paste’ into other wiki’s and guides, re-edited and presented without referencing or mentioning me. I’ve never meta-gamed CCP or Eve Bloggers for any public recognition or citation for the work I’ve done, even after seeing others with less impressive achievements get Community Spotlights, Dev Blog mentions or Player Blog write up’s.

Granted it may seem like I’m a little bit bitter about that but overall I’m glad the info is being made public and available for all to use. So like I said earlier, I definitely commend and applaud your work in helping players gain positive standings.

I agree the new standing log in the character sheet needs to show both the base standing and modified standing. Same for the Transaction log as well. I don’t know why CCP removed the ability to view the players NPC standings in their character info box, personally I think that should be changed back. I also agree the standing amount should be shown with 3 numbers after the decimal point, especially since ‘Faction Standing Relationship Graphs’ list numbers in that format.

Anyway, keep up the good work and may you have many more years of success.


(Imiarr Timshae) #5

Oh I absolutely meant to write a section about your work!

I was speaking in the mindset of “The go to guy to get them” as someone called me that recently. I apologise, indeed “the guy” was quite inaccurate. I point people to your stuff constantly.

Partially because I don’t want to have to write it up myself, but almost completely because I can’t improve on it :smiley:

Your materials are essential to my understanding of standings and the mechanics surrounding them.

That said, part of what I wrote mentions that I field around a dozen evemails most days over the past 8 years for standings of all kinds - usually around 5% of the questions I get via evemail end up being someone using my service. Probably about 10% are even requests for service, the rest are general questions like “What are data centers?” “How do I access the epic arcs?” “Can you come help me with this COSMOS mission.”

The vast majority of what I do isn’t just selling corporation standings, it’s a totally unseen and unadvertised knowledgebase - of which The Plan and related materials is a critical element.

Again I apologise, and I will leave the OP as it and this comment hopefully will do some justice to the way in which I wrote my piece.

That said, it’s great you agree with the general thrust of what I said. More data is always good, particularly when we got used to using it!


(Vortexo VonBrenner) #6

Oh yeah…the men in funny hats guy…I’ve read some of your stuff iirc

Aren’t standings less important now for deploying stuff anyway?

I am definitely one of the ones who has been helped by “the plan”, so thanks DMC.


(DeMichael Crimson) #7

Imiarr Timshae, no problem bro, I have much respect for the work you do and often support it by referring players to your service.

I also agree that CCP has made a lot of different player business ventures become obsolete over the years. Glad to hear your business is still going good and I hope it continues to do so for a long time.


Thanks man, I appreciate you saying that.


(Imiarr Timshae) #8

They are “less important” definitely, and my business has definitely changed over the last couple of years.

With POS no longer needing faction standing (though I could never sell them anyway as they don’t share via fleet mechanics) and citadels meaning people don’t want standings for broker fee as much, it’s changing.

The main issue is that the numbers we were given we built an ecosystem around so to speak. I have made hundreds of spreadsheets for people so they can calculate things, how many time more they need to do the amarr epic arc before they have x broker in every amarr station, for example.

With the new standings window CCP have simply removed the ability for anyone to use these sheets, because they took away the data we used.

And DMC states really what I am concerned about here:

CCP has made a lot of different player business ventures become obsolete over the years.

“Welcome to the sandbox, also we’re arbitrarily changing the sandbox to make impossible your effort to correct flawed or poorly explained mechanics.”

And it’s just going to make the game worse, because they are stripping the people who put the time into the game to help others of their tools to do so.


(system) #9

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