Standup Trading Post (small sized service module)

“Standup Trading Post”

Small size, fits in an Astrahus.

Allows limited market functionality, e.g.: no items larger than [10] m3; and no more than [20] buy/sell orders per user.

So, allows large plex sales and use alts to bypass the limits of order limits.
How about no, Markets are barred from Ast’s specifically and no silly system is going to get around that.

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Ok, no pilot services items either.

The point is to allow smaller groups to try building a market in pockets without attracting the ire of the big fish because the structure accommodates capitals.

Why should markets in small commodities be barred from Astras?

How about engaging with the idea constructively?

So implants then.
Small items are often the high value ones.

To have a market you need to make a significant investment, not just put down the smallest citadel possible and slap a market on it.
It is a deliberate action by CCP to say that Ast’s don’t have markets because it sets a step in corps owning structures where Ast’s are personal structures where you base a corp out of and Forts are a larger structure where you engage with the wider community.

There is no constructive way to engage with this idea because you have missed all the relevant points about why this has been done and why these steps are a good idea by CCP to not allow the market.

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He is bringing up fairly valid arguments. Just because he is raising criticisms does not mean he is is not engaging with the idea constructively. Too many people on this forum think that “disagreement” just means trolling, and that’s not the case.

Your initial burden is to explain why this is a good change. Markets should not be so easily established that anyone can just drop Astrahuses. And if you need to start coming up with such fine restrictions each time a new potential for abuse appears, it’s likely an indication that you have not thought out your idea very well.

The request for constructive engagement was to understand the reasons why it’s a bad idea. I’m not disputing the fact that it may well be a bad idea. Just saying ‘no this is bad’ doesn’t help though.

I appreciate the revised attempt to explain the concern but still don’t really get it. Why shouldn’t single players or very small corps be able to host a limited market?

Because the whole concept of “limited market” is not defined. And trying to work out what should or shouldnt be there and why is a waste of time, imo, because it will never make any sense.

Fair enough. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, it was defined positively instead of negatively so you could only sell ammunition, drones, nanite repair paste and fuel blocks.

What would be so game breaking about that?

At the moment all I’m hearing is:

At that point I would say the market is so limited as to be near pointless in reality as you would never recoup your costs of running the service via the tax share from it.
Additionally as soon as it exists we will be hit by 50 forum threads demanding CCP add extra functions to it because it is so limited.

And CCP would have to code market limitations, which currently won’t exist in their code base as there has never been a limited market in the game.

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Not game breaking, but an endless discussion of:
should cap batteries be included and in what sizes?
should combat boosters be included and in what quality?
should containers be included?
should deployables be included?
should command burst charges be included?
should scripts be included?
why only scripts/charges and not modules themselves?

Isnt it a little too much for a “limited” market already?

Ok, thanks for the feedback.

Here’s the argument in favour, in my head at least. There are no player hosted markets in low sec and the reason for this has got nothing to do with supply and demand, it is because Fortizars get killed in LS as they can act as staging points in capital warfare.

I know, if your main has security status issues you can have a hauler alt bring supplies up from high sec but, let’s face it, this is a massive pain that many residents of low sec would be happy to live without.

What I’m suggesting is unlinking the ability to market consummables that are in demand in low sec (i.e. encouraging activity there) from the unrelated issues of capital warfare.

That would be a sound argument if there weren’t NPC stations all around the place where you can safely sell/buy stuff at somewhat higher prices already. Also player-hosted “supply market” can be seen as a staging point for bombers/booshers/blops etc. and invoke Capital punishment :smirk_cat: anyway.

Both valid points.

Two comments on the first one. It’s safer to JF to an Astra than an NPC station, even with a good bookmark. Traders will be easier to attract if they don’t have to grind standings with the NPC station owner.

The second point is just a fact of life in low sec. That said, I can’t imagine big groups bother a small structure too often.

If that structure offers market - they will do it just for fun. And the sheer possibility of citadel with market getting blown up or disabled or getting restricted docking access on a whim of the owner (trader has to consider all sorts of risks involved) will result in the opposite of attracting traders.

Maybe. That is not a reason not to allow people to try it though.

At the moment the best arguments against seem to be:

How many structures really pay for their operating costs I wonder? If someone doesn’t mind paying the fuel bill, I don’t see a problem.

This would be a concern if CCP could not legitimately say, no, we thought carefully about the list of permitted items and we’re not reviewing it every time someone moans.

I have no idea how much of an issue this would be.

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