Completely agree with that part, although ‘more than one kind of content’ is obviously not irrelevant.
We need a healthy ecosystem that provides opportunities for crop and harvesters both. I do give CCP a hard time because, honestly, I feel they are being lazy and unwilling to take chances. They are pretty much like Null Sec… they want a nice safe stable farm they can keep making money off of, and they don’t want to take too many risky chances.
That said, it is very very hard to balance PvP with PvE in a game so both sides have a healthy population and a variety of activity. Most games either go full PvP (WoT, MWO, arenas, MOBAs, shooters) or tilt very heavily towards PvE with a little PvP afterthought on the side (most MMORPGs).
Games that try to mix PvE with PvP typically all have balance issues and general frustration all around. I think it is possible for EVE/CCP to do better than they have… but they will never come up with something that receives general approval all around. The player base is too divided.
But I believe if they had someone with some understanding of player psychology and game mechanics to draw up a vision, and the will to enact it, and could be arsed to re-direct some of those tens of millions of dollars they spend ineffectively every year to get some actually decent programmer/designers… then they could do a heck of a lot better than they have for the past 8 years.
My suggestion was to try it yourself to understand how advantages it is.
Let me try one more time.
The ganker via bumping can control the time and the location of the gank, they can bump multiple different freighters and have done so and then select which one they gank. They often bump a freighter that they have no intention to gank so that their enemy has to split resources.
That is merely using the advantage that they have. So if bumping was no longer possible or reduced in some way then the change would be that they would have to set up to catch people on gates rather like they kill jump freighters as they arrive in Jita. It changes the balance because they do not have total control of the time and location. It is not difficult to understand, they have a good target they have to chase it down and gank it.
There you go the difference. It affects a number of things most notably the victims counter play to being ganked.
I completely understand what you are saying. I just I don’t see how you can honestly argue that removing their ability to control the battlefield in this way will make anything for anyone more interesting. It will just relocate all the action directly to the gate where you are sitting with your rep ships directly in range.
That may sound super convenient for you if you don’t have to chase them around, but ganking will only happen if they think they have at least a chance to kill the target. It’s not like they wont adapt to this. They will either account for the reps or they will not gank at all. What won’t happen is that they whelp fleet after fleet into a working AG front, I hope you realize that.
Interesting things happen if there is uncertainty and room for error and that is what’s currently possible. If you are too effective then they will simply stop until you go away and that is in essence the whole problem with AG gameplay and why I’m not interested in it. There is simply no way to fix that.
The difference is more that they have to chase and be on the ball for their prey with the gank fleet. Of course they will adapt to it. I believe that they can do it and they will continue to gank, but I have to repeat, the focus for me is on the counter in terms of the freighter most of all. Their game play.
And what happens when someone hostile or even potentially hostile enters local? Do you go out and PVP them? Or do you avoid them? Please take note of the use of “don’t” in this suggestion. It signifies avoidance, not evasion.
Do you see that word again, “don’t”? Don’t go to potentially dangerous space. Don’t fly the wrong ship. Don’t fit your ship the wrong way. Don’t fly without a scout. Don’t, don’t, don’t . . . signifies avoidance, not evasion.
This one is a gimme. He even SAYS “avoid” in the suggestion. He also suggests that you DON’T use a regular freighter and that you DON’T fly alone, but with a scout in front of you.
Uh oh. There it is again. AVOID the gameplay in question.
So, DON’T allow friendly fire in my corp. He’s also glossing over the fact that betrayal is rarely a straightforward act. Often it involves the clever use of alts and/or funneling damaging information to a hostile party. Disabling friendly fire isn’t going to save you from a mole in your corporation.
Don’t fit for efficiency but for robustness. Don’t fly alone, but with a helper. Don’t use anything but a jump freighter. ← That part is a little obscure so let me clarify. What he is saying is effectively this: DON’T fly through space. lol
I look forward to your evasive response. I hope you don’t avoid replying.
If I’m in a caracal and they’re in a t1 frig, I’ll try to engage. If I’m in a rupture and they’re in a sleipnir i will evade.
If I’m in a incursus and they’re in a merlin; game on!
Players will weigh the options and make a meaningful choice. I don’t expect players to go like lambs to the slaughter but i have no sympathy for someone who thinks everything is cyno bait. It’s never so bad that you can’t fly cheap while ratting and ‘have a go’.
Bling ratters min/maxing to the point of fearing everything not blue are not doing it right.
It’s risk mitigation.
He’s saying ‘dont be stupid’. There are tools for both avoiding gate camps AND evading them. There are also ways multiple ways to get from A->B. Pick the one that suits your level of risk/reward.
This is the same as above. Tools that increase your chances do exist and yes, this includes alts/friends.
I may agree with you here. There are better options than not shooting the suspect, like shooting the suspect with a wing of Tornado’s. Or baiting the suspect baiter (there isn’t anything he can do that you can’t).
But you have to appreciate your limits. What kind of power can you pull? Are you willing to risk the unexpected? Is it just easier/safer/cheaper to let him go?
Every player gets to choose how much they invest/risk.
This particular issue is a complex one. One of the beautiful things in eve is that the trust between corpies is real.
Give power to those that deserve it is the best advice I can give you. But theres no guarantee that your fellow human wont screw you. Even rl friends screw eachother.
Luckily you can manage your level of risk here by controlling who is in your organisation and by what they have access to (and what ships you fly within their reach).
He’s not. He’s saying use the right tool for the job.
A expander fit freighter is more vulnerable than a bulkhead fit one. A bulk head JF even less vulnerable.
Use the tool that suits your level of risk/reward. And that may mean taking multiple trips. The decision of what to carry to what destination via what route in what ship is all yours.
But none of this makes you immune to getting shot up. If someone wants you THAT badly, they’ll make it happen. That’s the nature of eve, and if you can’t handle THAT specific part, you’re playing the wrong game.
Yes and there are and have been no seeds planted in the PvP community in years but I guess this only applies to PvEers right?
You really think PvPers are hunting ONLY new players? You think a freighter pilot is a new player? You think new players are where the money is at? I’m sorry but this doesn’t add up and you know it. You’re just grasping for straws. We’re not gaining new players because there is no entry level PvP NOT because the PvE isn’t safe enough. Eve is a PVP GAME deal with it.
The Pirates are not safe. CODE. can be stopped by a fleet a fraction of the size but no entity bothers to learn enough about the mechanics involved and would rather cry to CCP.
The targets have not left, the TOOLS required to get enough content to still want to play this game have been taken away. Again, Pirates are not shooting new bros for money. You’re just throwing that in there because it sounds good. It makes no sense. You make no sense. You are wrong.
This is a HUGE misconception. The problem is the exact opposite of what you mentioned. PvEers are dying FAR LESS than they used to. Now only old bitter vets with loads of game knowledge can participate because the entry level PvP activities have been removed (and guess what? we’re NOT hunting new players). The barriers for High-sec PvP have been raised too high to foster a young PvP audience and THATS the problem with this game.
PvEers are too safe, thus new PvPers have no targets unless they sub 3 accounts and sink a fortune in skill injectors or they let their accounts train for a year and come back to it. Clamoring for more safety only causes more of this. It’s been proven over and over again. You have to stop with this. You CANNOT be 100% safe. High-sec piracy is a VALID AND NEEDED PLAYSTYLE. It WAS the entry level PvP back when the game had twice the playerbase that it does now. You are being the worst kind of snowflake. You want to have your cake and eat it too and THAT is what is bad for the game. Entitlement at it’s WORST.
I’ve watch an ENTIRE COMMUNITY that fostered a MASSIVE amount of growth in terms of new players, completely die because of the entitlement that you and many others like you hold.
I can’t really contend with your duplicity. You’re going to say whatever you THINK makes you right and your ego isn’t going to stand down in the face of any reasoning. But, here you have made an assertion. So, let’s apply your concept of evasion to this assertion.
A guy in a blingy ratting ship sees someone enter local and docks. He has evaded aggression. gg
He’s either in Null Sec in which case he doesn’t have a big enough umbrella. Or, if he’s in highsec, he should refit to not be blingy and no longer be a target. He could also refit to a PvP fit and kill his hunters. Or refit to a bait fit and watch the suicide fleet DIAF as he laughs.
Face it child, you always have options. You’re just cherry picking responses and reaching for straws that fit your narrative and it’s pathetic. You always have an option, you are never left without a counter, stop being lazy and learn how to play the ■■■■■■■ game.
You have pointed out no issues or benefits. You have done nothing but clamor for a change that helps YOU and subsequently DESTROYS another playstyle ENTIRELY. You DO NOT have the game knowledge required to pass judgement on ANY of the scenarios presented aside from the ONE (flying a freighter) you interact with so stop pretending.
We’re not in troll mode we’re in “I cannot believe people are actually this entitled, I’m done bullshitting around” mode. You have been pampered for years on end and are still throwing a tantrum because there’s still things that you want that you cannot have.
If you’re only interested in ratting and always docking everytime someone enters local, you are providing little to no content. You are in fact often denying yourself content. You are telling yourself i CANT win that fight, so i wont even try. I CANT rat with a hostile in system so i wont even try. If blinging your ship ends up restricting your gameplay, i’d say you are doing it wrong. The same as people who refuse to fight because they have +5’s in their head. If its stops you playing the game, maybe you need to reassess what implants are best for you.
You could instead ask yourself, how can i rat with a hostile in local? Can you rat in something cheap that you don’t mind losing? Could you change system and rat somewhere else? Could you fit for PvP, call some mates and bait the intruder out?
Noooo those all require him to THINK and ADAPT. His best option is to run to the forums and whine like a spoiled brat for CCP to remove an entire playstyle because it inconvenienced him.
You are entitled to have easy ganking against whales, you started to talk about stopping ganking due to cost because of the extra cost of tags. You are the entitled one and you should feel bad about it.
Okay, but where does your subjective opinion end? If HTFU and GTFO and “You’re doing it wrong.” are just your opinion, what else are you saying that is merely your opinion? Maybe your whole take on “evasion” is opinion.
You call it “Denying yourself content.” Wouldn’t a smart, evasive player call it “evasion” and “risk mitigation” and simply “not dying”?
Please point out where anyone was demanding to rat risk free.
But isn’t narrowing your options simply the smart play and using the right tools for the job and adapting in the face of an unforgiving circumstance? Why should I undock a PVP ship at all if I don’t have to take that risk? Why shouldn’t I fly “the right tool for the job” and put that tool in a safe place whenever it becomes risky to use it? Isn’t that evasion? What’s so bad about evasion?
Why should I undock a PVP ship at all if I don’t have to take that risk?
If the alternative is sit in station and do nothing? What do you expect in this situation of your OWN making? If you wont fight for your right to rat, what exactly do you want ccp to do?
Why shouldn’t I fly “the right tool for the job” and put that tool in a safe place whenever it becomes risky to use it?
If the alternative is to never use it because you’re too afraid to lose it?
What do you expect ccp to do in this situation of your OWN making?
I think you’re slowly waking up to the fact you are your own worst enemy. Running away and evading us perfectly fine gameplay. But you can’t piss and moan that you’re ■■■■ is too expensive to lose so you’re only option is to not play. That’s all on you.
So, it sounds like you agree that avoidance is bad [gameplay], but just don’t agree on what avoidance is and isn’t.
But, but . . . I’m evading. I thought docking was evading. And, who was asking CCP to do anything?
Obviously if I had to dock up, I was using the tool. And, no one said anything about evading out of fear. Only evading because it’s the smart play. If I have a station that can keep my ship safe from space meanies, I’mma use that tool to keep my tool safe. #evasion#righttoolforthejob
Ummmm . . . okie dokie. Did you mean to send this reply to Mayhaw Morgan?
When did I piss and moan, letalone piss and moan about my ships being too expensive? You seem to have lost touch with reality a little bit. You’re arguing with someone in your head.
Let me make this easy on you because you’ve said literally nothing this entire time. What change could CCP make to this game that would make you happy or want to play?