Only most stupid game developers will make large number of game subscribers into the “prey” and alienate it from the game…
4 Likes
Yeah, I blame everything on ex-CCP Soundwave & Co.
1 Like
I was not going to reply to you because the change made by CCP said it all they turned friendly fire off because they realised that people were too scared to recruit people.
But I then I decided that I needed to point out that If paying attention to who I recruited required extensive API or ESI searches that took me into checking what colour they painted their fecking toenails I am not going to bother, sorry…
The new player should go join PH and good luck to them.
3 Likes
That was the reason ccp gave. But i took the effort of asking people that were making adverts but not displaying themselves as new player friendly why they weren’t displaying themselves as new player friendly.
By far the most common reply was because that new players hardly ever stuck around and/or they couldn’t be bothered to teach new players the basics of eve. After that was sp intensive doctrines and theft. The lowest of the low reasons, as in it was mentioned once (and vaguely at that) out of over 20 replies was getting shot.
That’s why i say the change was misguided.
I would have preferred (my version) social corps which could hire without consequences (no assets/corp money to steal, no wardecs and no AWOXing either. And you couldn’t skim corp tax off members either). And then full corps could take things more seriously and provide a higher level of engagement for those looking for a more serious game. One type of corp could be used as a screening process for the other.
What we got was corp spam.
Sigh*
I can dream…
2 Likes
And a damn good reason if I may say so.
Again I would not disagree with that.
Theft is actually my issue, the drama llama around that was just annoying as feck and I cannot be arsed to spend my time doing ESI checks down to the colour of their toenail nail polish.
CCP have data, I don’t, you have a sample of people just like I had a sample of people who left after being scam bumped or a sample of people that were hisec indy players who left after the catalyst change. CCP did not pick up on the hisec indy for a long time then they did with the adjustment to mining ships. Who knows what they had in terms of awoxing.
Hisec is not attractive…, it does not matter in any case.
2 Likes
This game has been trashed by CCP. They’ve removed almost all of the enjoyable PvP content. They’re pandering to the same roaming mob of snowflakes that every other modern game does. They cry for nerfs until they kill the game and then move on to the next one.
This upcoming patch is going to all but remove all of the PvP content in highsec aside from suicide ganking and mass wardecs/hub camping (such great content right?). It will be the final nail in the coffin for the entirety of the high-sec suspect baiting community and will remove an unbelievable amount of emergent gameplay.
None of my friends have so much as logged in or even talked in discord since they announced the logi change and this is a community that has been going for 10+ years. So yea, they’ve pussified the game. It’ll be on it’s way out shortly. In the mean time I’m going to sub 20 suicide ganking accounts (with plex, enjoy those plex prices) and help move it along 
Low-sec is caps or bots, null-sec is caps or bots.
8 Likes
The state of eve…
Hmmm, hard to tell, as the login numbers still around 30k in peak time.
It feels for me as if the game is much more PVE game.
You can grind ur a** off in null sec, surrounded by blues and there is hardly any risk if u pay attention.
PVP gameplay at the other hand is relatively dull.
Mostly it will end up with 25+ jumps, finding one VNI pilot who didn’t pay attention or getting caught in capital gate camp.
I think EVE is great game graphic wise and I dont blame the game engine neither.
The gameplay rules… I have no positive comments here!
It just feels as if you are supposed to grind, wait timer, grind, grind, wait another time, grind again!
1 Like
So there is a plenty of space to receive all PVPers and there you can fight till the end of the time, and we snowflakes and carebers will
slowly and peacefully live in hisec 
4 Likes
As a lowsec guy who looks for pvp in fw complexes, it’s fun but takes a lot of time to find fights, and when you find one, it’s often some bot/farmer in venture. I’m not asking to be spoonfed content, but I wish it would be easier to find. Would be also nice if lowsec would be attractive to more players, so roaming for content would take 15 min instead of 1h.
But that’s probably only possible in perfect world.
No idea how to make it more attractive, I’m not good in that sort of thing. Maybe make it better area for subcaps, keep the caps in null.
1 Like
So what’s the message:
- Is it “EVE’s fault” that lowSec/nullSec players can’t find combat opportunities?
- low- and nullSec are under-populated with players, and the numbers are mostly bots?
- low/nullSec players are so risk averse they rarely find the right conditions for combat?
- other issues?
(3) seems quite likely - a lack of PvP is easily explained if there are no combat PvPers left. When everyone has a strict “gank or run” strategy, and everyone is good at running, there won’t be a lot of combat.
But it wouldn’t be EVE’s fault /lol.
PS
It would be really amusing if, now that there are so many large and very large ships, the real issue is that all the ISK-rich bittervets are combat-averse because they are scared to lose their ships.
Scratch the surface of a ganker (using the real-gamer-world definition of the word) and you often find a PvEer in denial /lol
1 Like
In my experiences, there’s just barely anyone around. Lots of systems are empty, and if theyre not empty everyone is docked up or whatever. And I do solo pvp 99% of the time so idk about fleets etc. that much.
But is it?
The fact that an exploded ship, its modules and cargo are gone in EVE basically makes sure that taking only the fights you can win with certainty is a good strategy. Yes there are some people who don’t care but they probably just pay for their ships with $ because it isn’t quite sustainable otherwise.
To blame the players is just too easy in my opinion. CCPs job is to create the tools that people can create an environment in which they feel comfortable to take risks but not in a way that makes them completely save.
Now I don’t play in low, null or wormsec, so I can’t really comment on that. But I do see those changes on the structure side in highsec as well, where the amount of effort to remove a structure is raised so high that most people with some sense left and the insane drive to play a game for actual fun just don’t bother anymore.
I love this game. I did most of the time solo combat or ganking. But I just can’t bring myself to login anymore. Is just seams that every change to mechanics is centered around this horrible structures which can only be dealt with if you have either a huge blob and full timezone coverage or no life and job. And on top of that any possibility for reward on the attacker side and any risk of loss on the defender side is completely removed.
This all doesn’t really incentivize and environment with small interesting conflicts. It’s like some guy at CCP in game design thinks that EVE is all about grand strategy warfare and he has to cram that into every corner no matter what…
And on top of that, I don’t think the aging population of EVE players doesn’t suddenly have more time to waste and is still in a position to stay up in the middle of the night to shoot at a structure for zero potential reward. So I do ask myself, who is CCP designing this feature for? I don’t think it is particularly difficult to understand in that context why some places start to look like a ghost town.
1 Like
That is your perspective from your point of view.
You say that you find structures too hard and too time consuming but the defenders think that structures are too weak and the system was changed to make it less time consuming and thus easier.
Looking around me I would like to put up some structures to make stuff with in hisec however I know it will get blown up in short order and I cannot defend it against who will come at it. I accept that I don’t have enough friends and therefore I don’t deserve to have a structure in space and yet you want it made even easier to blow them up.
Do I have to be able to login 7/7 24/24 to defend my structures, you don’t want a 7/7 24/24 but neither do I.
You talk about a lack of reward on the attackers side and loss of risk on the defenders side, are you serious, I put up a structure with massively expensive rigs and you tell me I have no damn risk! Seriously? Where is your goddam risk, the ship you came to blow it up in. And there is reward, you have to scoop the can with salvage in, it does exist you know.
I hear the same moaning and whining from entitled so called PvP players all the time and it gets so tiring. This is a game where you put your assets on the line and where you put effort in. You are doing neither and when you start moaning about the state of the game, go look at yourself in the goddam mirror, because you are part of the reason why the game is not working. You have decided not to attack structures because effort, too hard for you and low rewards, I have decided not to put up structures up because they are too weak, don’t give me enough rewards and I can’t defend it. So we are both destroying Eve…, get it?
4 Likes
Karak
It’s either a sandbox or the gameplay is designed. There’s a grey areas between those of course, but IMO it’s quite small.
An an example, a small “cherry-pick” from your post:
For the record, I prefer games with relatively little “dead time”, so I generally agree with accommodating the needs of e.g. parents with young children, at least where it’s practical. But EVE doesn’t care: you’re either right for the game as it is, or you can leave.
The point though: If EVE is a sandbox, everything that players control is, in a sense, their own responsibility. That’s still true if the player profile changes.
If we were take it to its logical conclusion, low/nullSec combat PvPers should stop playing.
Design is a lot harder than telling people: “You don’t belong in the game, give me all your stuff”. It requires a new (for EVE) kind of work to be done (profiles player types, activities and how they actually occur, etc). And we have to acknowledge that the MMO business as a whole (not just CCP/EVE) has a questionable track record here.
But it’s still about as close to an “either/or” strategy decision EVE could ever face:
- Set some objectives and modify the game to achieve them … or
- Trust in the sandbox, and design game objects , but not gameplay
Personally I lean towards active design. Despite the risks.
Structures and ownership as another informal example: I think a good design principle would be to make it difficult to permanently own structures or space, and easier for an opponent to take over. Stability is perhaps more “realistic”, but is it fun?
And PS for Drac:
We don’t disagree on structures. Balance would be hard, and requiring 24/7 support is a bad thing. But I still think (or at least hope) that big improvements are possible.
1 Like
No, you misunderstand what I say. I don’t want it to be easier. What I complain about in essence is the timezone tanking. The fact that you have to be there at a specific time probably during the week. I’m not talking about the amount of damage, people or resources it takes, but about the new fact that it is almost absurdly unrealistic to take part in taking down structures if you have a regular life. That is why I ask who this feature is meant for.
Obviously structures still die, but the entities who attack them need some high level of organization to have the pilots available at the times they are required. It isn’t as easy to organize as it was for a POS bash.
No I actually didn’t talk about the defender side at all. Yes you have risk as a defender. I talked about no reward for the attacker for going trough all the trouble of killing a structure.
Yeah you sound pretty tired and aggravated. My intention was to discuss why I think the citadels are removing viable gameplay for a lot of people. You can dismiss that as “moaning and whining”, I just don’t get how that helps the discussion.
I mainly play games to have fun. My complaints are about stuff that gets replaced in a way that makes it completely inaccessible for me and therefor removes content from the game. And yes, maybe I’m no longer the player that fits the game as I’m not interested in building and maintaining structures.
You sound really angry by the way. Was it my comment?
No, I look at the changes and recognize that they now represent gameplay I’m not interested in. Again, I play games for fun and if I see them changing I can at least voice my opinion and inform the developers why I no longer interested in playing.
Not sure why you think that is “weak”. If you change the flavor of my favorite yogurt and I tell you that I no longer interested in eating it because it tastes like ■■■■ what would that have to do with “weak”?
You are angry and fed up from the tone of your previous post because you cannot have fun as you see it and I am angry because I cannot have fun as I see it. Poor CCP has to balance off between the two of us, not easy is it?
My post was more designed to make you understand that there are two sides to this, in fact I sit somewhere between the two, but what motivates you and makes it fun does not motivate other Eve players or makes it fun for them.
And my tiredness is that people are too black and white in such conversations like this.
TZ tanking, I was in an Aussie alliance and we would get accused of time zone tanking for merely having our timers set to our prime time, go figure…
1 Like
Now flip most of.your arguments to the defender.
If there isn’t a set timezone it is impossible to defend your structure if you have a regular life etc. given the attacker gets to choose who and where to attack, it is only fair the defender at least gets influence on when.
1 Like
Oh yes I agree with most of your point and especially with that maybe I’m no longer the right player for this game. I still think if such a point comes like it is now it is only fair to voice my opinion about what bothers me and eventually leads to me leaving EVE behind. It doesn’t help much if everyone just quits and doesn’t tell why.
But yeah, it’s quite funny how some try hard think one is “weak” for not going along with everything. It’s like they can’t distinguish between a person playing and the actual ingame content anymore.
I think EVE would have space for both types, I’m just very critical when it comes to CCPs ability to actually create fun content on their own. I mean their other games are all complete failures, all PvE content is basically some rehashed version of the same dull red cross shooting and not particularly creative.
The most interesting things to this game in my opinion where added when CCP looked at the stuff players did in the sandbox and enabled them to do it better. Which leads me to the conclusion that they where at one point great enablers of the sandbox, but really bad game designers. But that is just my opinion and why I think they better don’t design to much content.
I’m not angry. I’m just disappointed. You overestimate my attachment to EVE. I was very fond of this game for a long time, but I will have no issue fining something that fits my tastes better. There was never a time with more options to be honest. I still think it is fair to the developer to say why I’m no longer interested in playing, call that moaning and whining all you want.
Yes there certainly has to be a balance, I understand that. But to design the whole system in a way that makes it completely inaccessible for people with a regular life isn’t something that helps anyone and will not drive interesting conflicts.
But that is just my opinion man, and what do I know. Maybe I’m just a special snowflake that is to sensitive to still prep an alarm-clock to bash some structures in the middle of the night. Who knows.
Hack structures. Find some in your timezone.
Or hire mercs in structures timezone.
Because your regular hours reason applies to the defender as well. Why should they have to alarm clock as well when you already get to decide who and where you are hitting. Why should everything be on the attackers side.
This means that as a defender you can actually pick a time for the hull timer you can make it to.
Trying to act as if this requires some kind of snowflake thinking is silly. Whichever way you go one person has to alarm clock if the timezones are two different zones.
1 Like
I did not directly call what you said moaning and whining, just that I had heard a lot of moaning and whining on this subject. In fact I would say you are refreshingly honest.
Yes, I agree, but I was trying to point out that they have a pesky difficult thing called game balance to deal with and it is a pig for such a game.
1 Like