State of EVE?

[Wavemistress_Moidel]

@Bladewise

and replace the orcas I lost.

So you ended up in a pod then, my point is proven thankyou.

“It does not matter what you fly or where you fly if enough pilots want you, your dead and back in your pod regardless.”

[Bladewise]

Only because I was actively looking for PvP, if you’re NOT actively looking for PvP then you can literally never die if you simply learn how the game works.

What are you doing that’s getting you killed? It’s certainly not even close to as risky as the activity I mentioned. Again, I’ll tell you how to counter it. Then you can realize that you’re actually safe and stop killing the game by clamoring for more safety.

[Oliver_Delorean]

@Wavemistress_Moidel

“It does not matter what you fly or where you fly if enough pilots want you, your dead and back in your pod regardless.”

I dont want to challenge you, and I know we all have a point!

But look, I will be ratting in null sec today!
You can come with your 1001 friends, I will be IN WARP once one of you jump in system!
Cuz I pay attention in local!

[Bladewise]

rofl RIGHT! Cause as it turns out, PvPers will go somewhere else if you are proactive and offer them no content.

[Dracvlad]

The easy counter to someone using a wbber on their freighter is to use a blackbird to get a suicide point on the freighter. So what do you do then. Simple dock up in the system before and wait him out…

What do you do with a cloaky camping campaign in all your systems by an entity that can destroy your umbrella, simple log out and wait them out…

What do you do with an effective gate camp, simple log out and wait them out…

Suicide gankers in your area, simple log out and wait them out…

Just log out, all your Eve needs met with one simple action.

This is so spot on.

@Nevyn_Auscent

PvPers will always have a ‘you should have done this’ Because they always use the perfect world argument. And there is always one more thing you could have done.

And this

@Mayhaw_Morgan

See what you’ve done here? I can avoid losing a chess match by never playing chess. I can avoid a gate camp, a suicide gank, a suspect bait, a contract scam, etc. That’s not “game”. Are you suggesting that the “game” for PVErs in EVE is avoiding PVP?

Log out, or don’t log in and that is the state of Eve, well done PvP’rs you have won Eve…

And before you get all smug and superior to me, I get around quite well myself as I know what I am doing, but there are a number of times that I will log out and wait them out, it is damn effective.

The most important thing is that you have to work out whether you as the defender can escalate to the end point or counter all their counters, in terms of bumping I get to the point where I have to gank their bumper but if I have one or two accounts I am not going to be able to do that so at that end point I am not able to counter it. If I was in a Bowhead I have a chance to warp to my scout in a ceptor burning in the direction of the bump using the MWD to try to negate the excessive speed if the bumper is a bit lazy, in a JF I would jump to a cyno, but in a freighter it is game over.

[Karak_Terrel]

@Dracvlad

log out and wait them out…

I think he is talking about measures you can take in the game and not avoiding the game at all. In your examples I don’t see a single one that can’t be played around.

[Bladewise]

Suicide ECM the Blackbird. Use redfrog instead. Or use a jump freighter like you should be doing anyways to bypass the systems where this is a remote possibility.

Get a bigger umbrella. Or, you know, dont be so entitled as to think you should be able to PvE in safety in null-sec whenever you please (even though you basically can).

Take a different route, jump clone, instawarp interceptor (enters warp in under a server tick, warping takes priority over scram if it happens in the same tick, you get off the gate every time), dont warp straight to next gate to avoid smartbombs (or for 99% of the gatecamps just tank the interceptor).

Depends on what the gankers are after and what you are trying to do. But the easiest way is to watch short scan and warp when they show up on D-scan. Or you could do like I do and have a duplicate setup in another system and just jump clone or if you’re a target because you’re blingy, just refit to be not blingy… or even better yet, refit a bait target that is all buffer and laugh as their entire fleet pops without killing you.

You know… be creative.

Or you could keep whining the game into oblivion because you’re selfish and shortsighted… you know… it’s up to you really.

[Dracvlad]

@Karak_Terrel

I think he is talking about measures you can take in the game and not avoiding the game at all. In your examples I don’t see a single one that can’t be played around.

If I have my freighter with my webber and I see a Mach on gate along with a blackbird, I will always dock up and wait them out. I can of course go hunting for a hisec to hisec WH, I can also decide to move the stuff in by DST, unless I am carrying a courier contract which I cannot break up into separate parts or something really big like a Keepstar for example.

So docking up and waiting it out is my only option. But perhaps I can go buy a JF, ah but hold on if the cargo is too big for a JF I am not able to do that.

[Bladewise]

@Dracvlad

I can of course go hunting for a hisec to hisec WH

See look there ya go I didn’t even think about that.

Now you’re using your noggin. Be creative man. The whole reason CODE. even exists is because so much other emergent gameplay was nerfed. CODE. could’ve been a reality years before it actually was but didn’t emerge until PvP got so stale that there was nothing better to do.

[Karak_Terrel]

@Dracvlad

So docking up and waiting it out is my only option

You just mentioned other options yourself. I don’t get it. Also how about taking another route?

[Bladewise]

Most of these guys wanting more safety are entitled. They miss the part where this is a VIDEO GAME and some people enjoy different activities than they do. They also fail to realize that the constantly deteriorating state of the game is a direct result of their entitlement.

[Dracvlad]

@Bladewise

Suicide ECM the Blackbird.

What with? I have to have a specific gank character on both accounts, I can’t use my mains as I will get a kill right which will make me lose my freighter.

@Bladewise

Use redfrog instead.

Doing a double wrapped contract? What now, can’t do that.

@Bladewise

Or use a jump freighter like you should be doing anyways to bypass the systems where this is a remote possibility.

Cargo is too big for that.

So what now?

@Bladewise

Get a bigger umbrella

So you mean bat phone.

@Bladewise

Or, you know, dont be so entitled as to think you should be able to PvE in safety in null-sec whenever you please (even though you basically can).

I never made that assumption, I just pointed out that your solutions did not work.

@Bladewise

Take a different route

Not always possible

@Bladewise

jump clone

My cargo?

@Bladewise

instawarp interceptor (enters warp in under a server tick, warping takes priority over scram if it happens in the same tick, you get off the gate every time), dont warp straight to next gate to avoid smartbombs (or for 99% of the gatecamps just tank the interceptor).

My cargo?

@Bladewise

Depends on what the gankers are after and what you are trying to do. But the easiest way is to watch short scan and warp when they show up on D-scan. Or you could do like I do and have a duplicate setup in another system and just jump clone or if you’re a target because you’re blingy, just refit to be not blingy… or even better yet, refit a bait target that is all buffer and laugh as their entire fleet pops without killing you.

I do that. But then again I play to be hard to kill.

@Bladewise

Or you could keep whining the game into oblivion because you’re selfish and shortsighted… you know… it’s up to you really.

Ooooooh personal attacks, actually I do not have a single ganker kill on any of my characters, I have operated around very effectively, but I also make the conscious decision to not do things that are just too risky, so I do not use freighters to move stuff between Amarr and Jita for example.

@Bladewise

See look there ya go I didn’t even think about that.

Yeah but if I don’t find a suitable hisec WH, but you are a bit smug.

@Bladewise

Now you’re using your noggin. Be creative man.

There is a point when you can’t get past it, there is one I detailed above.

@Bladewise

The whole reason CODE. even exists is because so much other emergent gameplay was nerfed. CODE. could’ve been a reality years before it actually was but didn’t emerge until PvP got so stale that there was nothing better to do.

CODE was created because they got butthurt over the change in mechanics over can baiting. And your propaganda sucks, because there have been more buffs to ganking than nerfs. Catalysts getting a big DPS buff was a massive buff to ganking was it not?

@Karak_Terrel

You just mentioned other options yourself. I don’t get it. Also how about taking another route?

If there is no suitable WH then docking up is the only option

@Bladewise

Most of these guys wanting more safety are entitled. They miss the part where this is a VIDEO GAME and some people enjoy different activities than they do. They also fail to realize that the constantly deteriorating state of the game is a direct result of their entitlement.

That is what I think about people like you, your point of view is that you are entitled to easy PvP.

[Oliver_Delorean]

1. High sec should be 10 times smaller. Only new players stay there until they get comfortable with the game mechanics. (Nothing else to do there.)

2. All the old farts like us, should be shooting or mining in null-sec.
   Taking care of our own and our corp safety!

3. Remove local chat cheat from null-sec.

Now what’s gonna happen?
Yes you can still rat! Your corporation pvp wing has to be ready to protect you.
Gate camps! Nobody knows how many people come through.

Destruction!
Confusion!
Excitment!
Wins!
Losses!

That’s all the big spaceship sandbox should be about!

[Bladewise]

What with? I have to have a specific gank character on both accounts, I can’t use my mains as I will get a kill right which will make me lose my freighter.

Bring a friend

Doing a double wrapped contract? What now, can’t do that.

Any number of the solutions below

Cargo is too big for that.

So what now?

Only take contracts that fit in a JF.

So you mean bat phone.

There’s plenty, pick one

I never made that assumption, I just pointed out that your solutions did not work.

Then it’s a moot point and if anything it’s already too safe.

Not always possible

HS to HS WH

My cargo?

Why are you hauling cargo through a gate camp and not in a JF

My cargo?

Why are you hauling cargo through a gate camp and not in a JF

I do that. But then again I play to be hard to kill.

Then there isn’t a problem, or do you think the problem is that you have to be bothered by all these other players in a multiplayer game?

Ooooooh personal attacks, actually I do not have a single ganker kill on any of my characters, I have operated around very effectively, but I also make the conscious decision to not do things that are just too risky, so I do not use freighters to move stuff between Amarr and Jita for example.

You’re literally being selfish shortsighted… oh and entitled too, I forgot about entitled.

Yeah but if I don’t find a suitable hisec WH, but you are a bit smug.

Only take contracts that fit in a JF.

CODE was created because they got butthurt over the change in mechanics over can baiting. And your propaganda sucks, because there have been more buffs to ganking than nerfs. Catalysts getting a big DPS buff was a massive buff to ganking was it not?

I personally flew with many of the original CODE. pilots and yes CODE. was created because their content got nerfed out of existence. They HTFU and did something different. Why is it so outlandish for you to be expected to adapt when they’ve had to? They literally dropped everything they were doing, STILL STUCK WITH THE GAME and built something completely different? You wanna nerf that too? This is what I mean by entitlement.

If there is no suitable WH then docking up is the only option

Use a jump freighter

That is what I think about people like you, your point of view is that you are entitled to easy PvP.

You fail to understand that “easy PvP” doesn’t exist in this game and when the PvP was “easier” than it is now there was much less (actually little to none) of the activities going on that you are complaining about. What do you want? Remove PvP in high sec? 10b a month subs? The market crashes? The game ceases to exist? More safety is only hurting this game.

[Karak_Terrel]

@Dracvlad

If there is no suitable WH then docking up is the only option

I’m sorry, but we already mentioned several other options. At this point it just sounds more like you want it to be this way.

There isn’t a 100% risk free solution to everything. Well there almost are, but you will find some small chance that something can go wrong to everything you do in EVE. There has to be, otherwise it would be pretty broken and there would be no reason to not use that option.

There are probably thousands of freighters taking that passage in those two systems every day without issue and without the urge to just dockup and logoff.

[Dracvlad]

@Bladewise

If you have a freighter, no friends, and are complaining that you can’t counter something by yourself in a massive MULTIPLAYER game then you are seriously misguided.

Don’t forget that I am actually having to counter one player who is massively multi-boxing. Like Kusion for example.

@Bladewise

Doing a double wrapped contract? What now, can’t do that.

Any number of the solutions below

You have not answered the question, I have a double wrapped courier contract which I cannot pass on to anyone else, I cannot break it up and I have to use a freighter and I cannot find any WH’s. What do I do to counter the Mach and the blackbird waiting on the other side of the gate?

@Bladewise

Only take contracts that fit in a JF.

But I have the contract now, what can I do with it?

@Bladewise

There’s plenty, pick one

Have you ever been involved in such discussions?

@Bladewise

Then it’s a moot point and if anything it’s already too safe.

That is your opinion, I see lots of ships getting caught in nullsec.

@Bladewise

HS to HS WH

As I pointed out to you, but finding a suitable one is not always possible.

@Bladewise

Then there isn’t a problem, or do you think the problem is that you have to be bothered by all these other players in a multiplayer game?

Putting words in my mouth, I am interested in possible counters. As I actually do what I say and know ho to play this game I have lead you to an example where my only option is to log off.

@Bladewise

You’re literally being selfish shortsighted… oh and entitled too, I forgot about entitled.

Hardly, I look for game balance and counters. I have detailed one where the only option is to log off.

@Bladewise

Only take contracts that fit in a JF.

Again it does not fit in a JF, what now?

@Bladewise

I personally flew with many of the original CODE. pilots and yes CODE. was created because their content got nerfed out of existence.

Rubbish, their play style got massive buffs, you are yet again showing just propaganda. And I will never forget the freighter wreck buff to ganking which happened because AG was blowing up wrecks so the gankers cried to CCP. Talk about entitlement…

@Bladewise

Use a jump freighter

Cargo is too big, what now?

@Bladewise

You fail to understand that “easy PvP” doesn’t exist in this game and when the PvP was “easier” than it is now there was much less (actually little to none) of the activities going on that you are complaining about.

Seriously, when they changed ceptors to warp quicker they made it a lot easier to catch people in null. Keep going with this mate I am an old player who PvP’s.

So now I want to remove PvP from hisec now, when I support war decs and ganking and have publicly said so in many threads, I am interested in getting the correct balance where your best option is not to log off in disgust.

And above I detailed the period when the catalysts got buffed and mining ships were left with the tank of a wet paper bag and the catastrophic loss of hisec players that occurred when it was made a lot easier for gankers. Less safety actually hurt the game! Or more accurately poor balancing…

@Karak_Terrel

I’m sorry, but we already mentioned several other options. At this point it just sounds more like you want it to be this way.

Sorry as I have actually been in this situation that was my only option, though I eventually found a WH that did the business.

@Karak_Terrel

There isn’t a 100% risk free solution to everything. Well there almost are, but you will find some small chance that something can go wrong to everything you do in EVE. There has to be, otherwise it would be pretty broken and there would be no reason to not use that option.

Did I say that.

@Karak_Terrel

There are probably thousands of freighters taking that passage in those two systems every day without issue and without the urge to just dockup and logoff.

So what?

[Karak_Terrel]

@Dracvlad

@Karak_Terrel

There isn’t a 100% risk free solution to everything. Well there almost are, but you will find some small chance that something can go wrong to everything you do in EVE. There has to be, otherwise it would be pretty broken and there would be no reason to not use that option.

Did I say that.

You just give the impression that no option is good enough if there is a possible counter to it. Maybe I read that wrong, it’s possible.

@Dracvlad

@Karak_Terrel

There are probably thousands of freighters taking that passage in those two systems every day without issue and without the urge to just dockup and logoff.

So what?

You make it sound like the route is completely blocked and you are forced to logoff. That isn’t true, other players take the super small risk of losing their ship.

[Bladewise]

Don’t forget that I am actually having to counter one player who is massively multi-boxing. Like Kusion for example.

Don’t take a contract larger than a JF can carry. All your problems are solved.

You have not answered the question, I have a double wrapped courier contract which I cannot pass on to anyone else, I cannot break it up and I have to use a freighter and I cannot find any WH’s. What do I do to counter the Mach and the blackbird waiting on the other side of the gate?

Don’t take a contract larger than a JF can carry. All your problems are solved.

But I have the contract now, what can I do with it?

Don’t take a contract larger than a JF can carry again. All your problems are solved.

Have you ever been involved in such discussions?

God forbid you have to actually interact with other players!

That is your opinion, I see lots of ships getting caught in nullsec.

Only because they don’t take the proper precautions. Chalk it up to a loss and learn from your mistake. No issues there. Or wait… would it be more balanced if noone was getting caught in nullsec?

As I pointed out to you, but finding a suitable one is not always possible.

Then use a JF

Putting words in my mouth, I am interested in possible counters. As I actually do what I say and know ho to play this game I have lead you to an example where my only option is to log off.

Don’t take a contract larger than a JF can carry. All your problems are solved.

Hardly, I look for game balance and counters. I have detailed one where the only option is to log off.

And I detailed how this scenario was a result of taking a contract larger than a JF can carry thus proving there is no imbalance and you actually just made a mistake.

Again it does not fit in a JF, what now?

Don’t take a contract larger than a JF can carry again. All your problems are solved.

Rubbish, their play style got massive buffs, you are yet again showing just propaganda. And I will never forget the freighter wreck buff to ganking which happened because AG was blowing up wrecks so the gankers cried to CCP. Talk about entitlement…

Oh you think one account should be able to destroy the efforts of an entire fleet with no effort? Should 1 catalyst be able to gank your freighter?

Cargo is too big, what now?

Don’t take a contract larger than a JF can carry. All your problems are solved.

Seriously, when they changed ceptors to warp quicker they made it a lot easier to catch people in null. Keep going with this mate I am an old player who PvP’s.

And they also made it possible for you to travel through null-sec in complete safety. Need to haul cargo? Use a JF

So now I want to remove PvP from hisec now, when I support war decs and ganking and have publicly said so in many threads, I am interested in getting the correct balance where your best option is not to log off in disgust.

Your best option is to use a JF.

And above I detailed the period when the catalysts got buffed and mining ships were left with the tank of a wet paper bag and the catastrophic loss of hisec players that occurred when it was made a lot easier for gankers. Less safety actually hurt the game! Or more accurately poor balancing…

except there wasn’t a catastrophic loss of hisec players… you just made that up to fit your narrative.

Sorry as I have actually been in this situation that was my only option, though I eventually found a WH that did the business.

LOL WOOOOWWWWWWW

[Dracvlad]

@Bladewise

Don’t take a contract larger than a JF can carry. All your problems are solved.

You ran away from that point pretty quickly! And I see that you changed what you wrote

If you have a freighter, no friends, and are complaining that you can’t counter something by yourself in a massive MULTIPLAYER game then you are seriously misguided.

And I said.

@Dracvlad

Don’t forget that I am actually having to counter one player who is massively multi-boxing. Like Kusion for example.

So everyone in this game should not do any contracts that are larger than a JF. So that is the end counter. OK, so people do not use freighters, just JF’s. OK done end result of the escalation or the end point.

@Bladewise

God forbid you have to actually interact with other players!

Is that your point of view.

@Bladewise

Only because they don’t take the proper precautions. Chalk it up to a loss and learn from your mistake. No issues there. Or wait… would it be more balanced if noone was getting caught in nullsec?

That was a comment on your suggestion that the game was made easier to avoid when in fact the point was making was that interceptors had their warp speed buffed and made it easier to catch people. I highlighted a salty part of your reply, why are you even suggesting that, I never said that?

@Bladewise

And I detailed how this scenario was a result of taking a contract larger than a JF can carry thus proving there is no imbalance and you actually just made a mistake.

So what this has proved is that a freighter is not a properly balanced ship because you cannot use it as there is no counter. Thank you for getting to the point that I think is super important.

@Bladewise

Oh you think one account should be able to destroy the efforts of an entire fleet with no effort? Should 1 catalyst be able to gank your freighter?

Never said that, and it was effort. And you mean like what happened with hyper dunking in terms of one catalyst being able to gank a freighter, well one character using huge numbers of catalysts.

@Bladewise

And they also made it possible for you to travel through null-sec in complete safety. Need to haul cargo? Use a JF

I know people who blow up JF’s you are so defeatist.

@Bladewise

except there wasn’t a catastrophic loss of hisec players… you just made that up to fit your narrative.

Yeah right. So all those people that I knew who no longer play due to that are a figment of my imagination. If you say so, the acid test was that CCP actually changed the ships to give a choice in terms of tank and why did they do that? You can bluster around that all you like but CCP’s actions speak louder than your words.

@Bladewise

LOL WOOOOWWWWWWW

Well I was lucky one spawned in time. But that was the last time I did a courier contract actually. So I am laughing because your content has now gone, good job! It is the other option to logging out which is don’t do it.

[Karak_Terrel]

@Dracvlad

So what this has proved is that a freighter is not a properly balanced ship because you cannot use it as there is no counter. Thank you for getting to the point that I think is super important.

I don’t’ get it. Counter to what? Freighters get used all the time.