Oof sorry, I just checked now, I actually do 409 dps with it, with an extra rocket laucnher and a single drone.
For Mwd, it would not work as I need to maintain the AB speed in close orbit to keep high transversal with the other Taloses.
The vaga when orbiting without prop mod is only hit when the orbit is bad (so I go straight toward one). Enyo on the other hand has a much smaller sig, so should not be hit unless you really go straight toward a talos.
Also don’t forget to use rage nova for the talos.
The PVE content that I am currently doing there is quite a high risk that one of us will lose a ship, it is challenging and engaging which is more than I can say for playing level 1-3 security missions solo.
Why do I have to give examples of PVE content that wont be as affected to prove that it raises the bar for progression into harder content? Why does it “sound wrong” that I specifically skilled to do a certain type of content in battleships after 2 months in a 16+ year old game?
I have friends that are vets (12+ years played) some think its awesome that I have got to this point so quick and others think it is too quick and it should have been harder for me for no apparent reason (I can only assume that they don’t want new players having nice things so quickly?).
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Me…
Simply because they go into the completly wrong direction aka ‘spoiled for decades PVP’.
More proof is not necessary…
I can get some of that that as I quite ‘WoW’ in 2006 and slowly found my way to EvE shortly after. My experiences with ‘WoW’ ended pretty quickly and I was making assumptions based on things that happened in a game a long time ago. When I won or lost in battlegrounds it just got stale real quick after the original adrenaline rushes I would get when I started doing BGs at level 52, subsided. Even when I lost, it did not affect my ego as everyone was pointing fingers at everyone for losses. Also, a lot of the loss of ego can be hidden/compensated for in ‘WoW’, whereas most losses in EvE have those same hits to ego plus the financial loss of game time put into building what you just lost or spent months saving up for, plus the bigger the loss the more people know about it and make their own decisions based on a lot of different variables.
I may be over stating here, but I see your example for WoW as a pebble being thrown into a birdbath while loss in EvE can be, not always, like throwing a large rock into that same birdbath. Again this could be overstated slightly, but the same loss of ego that you speak of in WoW occurs in EvE, Add to that, the loss of items can be significant, depending on the corp a certain loo could get you kicked out as one’s error may have destroyed a lucrative mercenary contract. EvE is just so much more deep at its core that I do not think WoW, or any game I know of for that matter, can compare to the so called ‘Butterfly Effect’ in EvE.
For a historical example, in EvE we could have. possibly already have had, the in game equivalent of the Shot Heard Around the World/Game Universe while most other games like WoW, the best they could offer is the Shot Heard Around the Server. When it comes to social context in game, EvE has the most dynamic,integrated, connected, player bases I have experienced in any game. Again this is my opinion.
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There is the test server where you can try it all out for only 1 isk each, for all items and ships. The losses do not matter…at all on SiSi server.
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The scaling of new pilot advancement it is not a wholly bad idea, but the bloating of the economy due to the number of items that are dropping from level 4’s, run at rates by new players that the game was not originally intending them to be able to do that quickly and efficiently, is not good. Injectors were never a good idea personally for this reason. in the past if you got good at EvE you could just purchase one of the older more skilled pilots and scale up that way. Now knew pilots can level up their own pilot with cash and now these new pilots are adding to the economy way more, way faster, than the original mechanics allowed for. In the past older players would help out new players when they lost ships which also helped consume resource stockpiles.
The same players upset with this nerf would also be upset if CCP decided to just nerf all isk bounties and item drop rates to compensate for the fact that 2 month old payers, 3 of them together or not, are creating an economic bloat…but they already nerfed those sources. So, now we have these changes. I am sure you and your two friends will be fine, especially if you all work on testing fits on the SiSI server before/after this new patch goes live.
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EVE is not a game thats designed around risk taking when PVE is a thing, it’s all about running as smooth as possible with the highest possible isk/h. We need to step back from the idea that anyone is willing to loose ships to PVE content. This isn’t wow, where dying is part of the learning curve in the cutting edge pve progression. EVEs PVE endgame is alot more about playing it safe for maximal consistant gains, and that’s fine. Because ultimately, PVE is there to enable PVP (not to say thats a reason to keep it uninteresting or entirely risk free).
I think invasions and incusions are fine for “group content”. One must not forget that such content rests on trust in eve since the game is by design a “deathmatch”, not a “team deathmatch”. There are no enforced partherships, and that’s the way it should be.
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Content and ship progression is not necessarily linear in this game. Also, bigger is not always better. If you are running lvl 4 missions because of the potential reward, then you should look at running abyssal sites. Cruiser for solo, frig for group. Frigs and cruisers are far easier to skill into effectively and are more fun to fly
Higher tier abyssal sites are VERY challenging and quite lucrative. Even on the lower end the payout is solid. Particularly for those that cannot reliably clear lvl 4 missions solo. The best part about abyssal space is the opportunity to be able to use frig and cruiser hulls in challenging and lucrative PvE.
Also check out exploration. That’s another fun PvE activity that can be quite lucrative using frig and cruiser hulls
I still think we should start newbies off in cruisers and let them train both up & down. That would really drive home the point of bigger is not better, and start them off in the most versatile ship size as well.
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Because what you need to prove is not that “it raises the bar for progression into harder content”. The point you’re trying to make, and hence what you would need to prove, it’s that there is a problem in this regard that CCP should be concerned with…
It’s if you wouldn’t be able to do content intended for young pilots with low skills that could be a concern, not the fact that you cannot have the skills to properly fly a battleship after only 2 months in the game.
Of course if you decide to push it to the edge you may be affected to the point of not being able to keep doing it, but that’s a consequence of you having pushed it to the edge, not proof that there is anything wrong with the changes.
Because you cannot properly fly a battleship with the appropriate skills in that timeframe (without injecting SPs, that is). You may fly a BS with suboptimal skills and be able to do certain things that way, yes, but that’s too fragile and prone to break when anything changes.
The problem you may have immediately after the changes is temporary and will stop being a problem as you train better skills. By the time you have those skills, it will make a lot more sense that you fly a battleship, not when you’re only 2 months old.
I’m not sure “awesome” is the right term here, but yeah, you found a particular kind of PvE that didn’t exist before and that you figured you could do that way by skipping the normal progression path and pushing things to the edge. Nice… while it lasted…
It is obviously too quick when compared with the normal frigate → cruiser → battleship progression path plus all the support skills, but that’s it, there is nothing more to it.
Nothing wrong with skipping that and going directly to the battleship stage if you want to… as long as you don’t pretend that CCP shouldn’t make changes to the game simply because you chose to do things that way…
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Hey @Darlo_Kubika, just so you know, you’re making a fool of yourself (again) by not realising that the very fact that even someone like you cannot go away and leave us alone is proof of how wrong your prophecies about the demise of the game because of these changes are…
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If you make players weaker and leave the content the same it is harder and/or more time consuming for the players to meet the requirements to do the content. Maybe that is the intention? I have no idea
Ive had a bigger look into the changes by logging into the test server and I don’t really have an immediate problem, I can solve it.
Yeah its a sandbox game, I thought you were meant to find stuff to do even if its a bit odd (I find what I am doing way less odd than spamming Jita local with scams).
My concern is that it will be a barrier for entry and get newer players stuck in the spot where jumps in difficulty become a lot larger and give up before they can make that jump. Maybe I am wrong.
I am playing a very different early game to the one veterans started playing all those years ago and thought I would give some input as a newer player about the changes. The economy is huge and there is a lot of opportunity to make isk in game (I am not talking about buying plex and selling it for isk) to afford bigger ships early on. I don’t know about other new players but that’s probably a factor in why I am playing it differently to how you would expect a new player to play it.
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On the contrary, it is.
So feel free to provide it.
(first bolded part)
Now, obviously the above is an opinion as opposed to anything substantiated, but for argument’s sake: sure, let’s do that. However, since destruction is a necessary component of EVE’s economy’s well-being, we’re going to have to compensate for this assumed lack of risk in PvE somewhere else. Since PvE would now be safe, and players are already losing ships at high levels in consensual PvP, the only thing we have left to adjust is nonconsensual PvP. So to compensate for absolute safety in PvE, we’re going to have to modify existing security mechanics in order for players to be more vulnerable to sudden aggression, which means easier wars, easier ganks, easier scams, easier tackling of miners and ratters in belts, et cetera. Otherwise, production will vastly outpace destruction, leading to inflation and collapse.
After all, it would be fundamentally unfair to expect only the 0.0 linemen to increase their rates of conflict and loss just to compensate for the increased output of the “safe PvE” crowd. Kind of hard to play the game too when all you do is lose stuff, don’t you think? Besides, that just sounds like the EVE version of Dante’s Inferno, with the violent locked in perpetual war, and the greedy pushing around (mining) giant boulders.
(second bolded part)
This is how outsiders and/or new/inexperienced players perceive EVE, but it’s rather far from reality.
“tiem 2 grind sum isks 2 buy new ship 4 pvp roams lolz”
That’s the lie sold to the simple-minded without which 0.0 politics wouldn’t be able to function. Just like in real life, really.
But the reality is that the pursuit of wealth (and as such, power, since the two are so closely linked to each other) is why conflicts happen. You don’t grind out your belt rats to put money in your wallet so that you can later join a fleet OP; you join the fleet OP so that you can defend your space or take someone else’s in order to have more and better wealth-generation opportunities for your group.
A lot of people forget this, choose to ignore this, or never even understood this. But this is how the game actually works behind the scenes. Having an attitude of “let the PvE-ers PvE while the PvPers can PvP” simply doesn’t work for this game; it ignores EVE’s downright existence as a simulator of realpolitik interaction.
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I’d like to ask you a few things (and this is not a criticism of you in any way):
What is the reason behind your desire to accelerate your PvE career by doing what it is that you do? For which reason are you trying to earn larger amounts of cash than players of your age generally earn? Do you see a greater purpose for those resources, or do you just like to see big figures in your wallet (once again, even if the latter, I am not criticizing you).
Because my concern for you as a new player is that you’re on the path to either massive disappointment, or a very quick burnout.
For example, if you tell me that your goal is to get a supercapital ship ASAP (which is a very common new player goal)…Then what? What would that enable you to do afterward? To fight for someone else, in a conflict that’s not yours? To try to use it alone against other players? To try to make even greater amounts of money by using it for PvE? How would you feel if after so much hard work, it got destroyed? Once again, just an example, but maybe you can see where I’m going with this; sometimes super-fast progression is not necessarily a good thing.
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My goal was to have fun with friends early on in content that we found somewhat challenging that we could pick up any time we want and have an element of control over the risk (High Sec PVE sites seemed the best choice). PVP would either be getting constantly killed by pilots with tens of millions of skillpoints or just ganked by a large groups in low sec.
Level 1, 2 and 3 security missions were rather disappointing in terms of challenge. isk/h isn’t my motivator, if I need isk at this point I will just do some trading. I have no interest in supercapitals (couldn’t even name one) or vast amounts of isk.
I’ll pay my subs to help keep the game running and play the game for as long as the amount of fun is worth the subscription amount to me.
edit: i went super tryhard for a few weeks (playing games more than I normally would) to get enough isk for my ship and some buffer isk to replace it a few times over.
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I didn’t come into the game expecting to be in battleships so quickly (I started playing as I was told it was good, I had zero expectations of anything), its just the game economy is huge and it wasn’t really that difficult to end up there, i just kind of ended up there organically by playing a bit, doing some trading and getting bored of the easy low level missions.
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Thanks ccp for this t2ship nerfs.
Whats the next nerf? 80% reduction in all eve online asteroid belts?
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Turning EVE into ganktards & campers heaven is final attempt to milk this failing game…
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That’s fine too. Sometimes not having a goal is a perfectly fine mentality. Just have fun exploring the game. But explore; don’t just do one thing over and over again.
I do disagree with your stance regarding PvP, though. Winning in PvP is much more a matter of mindset than a matter of skill points. Try approaching PvP from the perspective of a predator, and not someone merely “looking for a fight.” You will be surprised just how quickly you progress that way.