Hisec rocks don’t get big bonuses like other space.
It’s not worth taking a ninja fleet to a hisec belt. You’d be better off taking a regular mining fleet to a regular belt.
Believe me. People will just stop doing it.
Not sure what you’re talking about. High sec moon belts have larger rocks, null-sec ores (ABC’s, Gneiss of a +15% variety) and concord protection.
The entire point of this thread is high sec moon belts. You don’t need suspect flags to defend low-sec or null-sec moon belts.
Are not worth that much more than compressed variants of veld and plag. Certainly not worth going suspect for. Whatever i could make ninja mining even 15% spod, i could make more mining ice or regular belts with barges and orcas.
Null sec, wh and probably low as well can spawn super moon rocks with double yields. Something worth making a venture fleet for.
They don’t get these rocks in hi-sec, or if they do i haven’t seen one after what must be mining over a hundred hisec moon belts.
Ninja mining is not worth it in hisec. And no one is going to risk sitting in a belt for hours with a suspect flag. So if you go suspect for mining someone elses belt, people just won’t do it and go back to mining regular belts instead.
Edit, or at least that’s what I’d do the moment it becomes a suspect offence.
Changing the time of the belt will do nothing. We’ve seen corps sending a shuttle to scout systems and then show up with a mining fleet. In the past we would have been able to war-dec or pay a merc corp if we couldn’t be bothered doing it ourselves but now with the war changes you get structureless corps just going from moon belt to moon belt leaching off the investment of others.
And even if I didn’t care about losing sec rating, ganking isn’t an option. Some of these corps turn up with 4-8 orcas knowing you can’t burn through the orca’s HP before a concord response.
If someone who wants to steal something doesn’t think it’s worth the suspect flag that’s their choice. But right now the system isn’t great. If we think about this on a practical level of the work required to impliment it on the part of CCP, a suspect flag produced from ownership is a simple fix, the system is already there. But a limited war dec system would need work and then balancing. Also, a suspect timer fits more. Though I do agree with one correction made earlier that it should probably be linked to an access list option. That’s a slightly better idea than having to be in fleet with a corp member all the time.
One huge flaw in your example here that shoots your argument down completely: in your example of the jetcan mining, you actually had the ore you mined inside your ship before someone stole it and went suspect. You had ownership of it. With the moon belts, they’re just rocks in space, you don’t own them, they’ve never been inside of your ship, they’re free game until someone mines them.
Nothing in EvE is “yours” unless you can defend it. I hear suicide ganking miners is easy enough and it does tend to discourage them. Give that a go.
Also, fair warning: you just announced to the forums that you run a wardeccable corporation that can’t defend its moon mining operation, possibly due to a lack of PvP pilots. Rule #1 of the forums: never, ever announce that you’re a vulnerable corporation. I’d expect a few “just for lulz” wardecs being declared at Darkstar Manufacturing [DSMAN] pretty soon.
Have a nice day!
Well, it might work if people mining got limited time engagement with the structure (perhaps upon structure broadcast, thief has 30s to get away, then the structure can fire - and the structure can fire if he returns, 30s warning is once). Suspect timer is a bit too much IMO.
Yes, the ultralow agreed on tax of 0 ISK, like for any other activity. I hear USA is keen on stuff like that but I live in a socialist country so I can’t tell you how that works.
All individuals do, so why would corps have to get it? Or do you mean exploit? Then yes, all corps have that licence - in 0.5 or lower systems.
All corps are even able to install is the special designated machinery for this very purpose, and empires cleared it to be OK for their 0.5 systems. No need for any corp to get additional special permission when the tool vendor has it already.
Certificate is a nice way to fraud. In EVE, as should be in RL if you really care about quality, all the goodies are properly scanned - even when they were asteroids, their material composition was known to all ships (and precise amount of minerals to ships equipped with special sensors). Not relying on “hey, I am trustworthy, this is really 99.99% gold, pinky swear” at ANY step of the process. If you do, EVE is a great teacher again, just open a chapter of its scams.
Yeah, game is GREATLY simplified compared to the insane amount of paperwork and other work required. But it generally aims to sufficiently resemble reality so that any meaningful deviations (as opposed to simplifications) are noticeable. Where stealing ore from a mine definitely falls under “it would be illegal in RL”.
Oh man I’m really sorry about you. My country almost fell in the hands of socialism, but now we are free for good. Hope yours can be free soon
The best ores right now available in HS based on refined value are around 2/3rds of what Gneiss and Ark bring in. That extra 1/3rd is a meaningful difference.
I agree nobody is going to go suspect for that. But that difference is why the ninja-mine them now (if you want to use that term for what they’re doing). I’m not arguing for the proposed change. I’m simply disagreeing with the idea that it isn’t worth it as it stands now. Apparently that’s not what you meant. Apologies.
Khan wreth first mentioned ninja mining. I assume that means with ventures or by mining as much as possible before someone shows up…the latter sounds very exposed to stealth bomber tacklers. Especially in hisec.
He might have been referring to mining extremely valuable moon ore that has much better yield per m3 but only spawns by chance in null, possibly low (i have never seen one in hisec).
But back to the value of the rocks, some quick napkin math tells me that mining and reprocessing brill gneiss (the most mineral valuable ore right now) yields about 15mil per hour.
Or i can mine dense veld, compress it and sell it for about 12mil per hour.
Now that’s assuming I’m using macks for both. And no boosts (so it could really be more). If i have to drop down to ventures in order to keep mining my yield on the gneiss drops a lot. I can’t do the math right now, but i suspect a max yield venture doesn’t mine 12mil per hour of brill gneiss, let alone under fire. And any barges i try to mine whilst suspect will struggle to make that much per hour as well.
So i have to conclude that, if i go suspect for mining someone elses belt, i will make more isk from mining normal belts. Surely…
I just use this:
300 isk per m3 for Gneiss.
200 isk per m3 for Veld.
so… 2/3rds. I’m just using refined value though.
Again, I agree nobody is going to go suspect for that. I think that idea is dumb. My interpretation of “ninja mining” is like “ninja salvaging” was… where you do something legal (mining moon rocks someone else extracted or salvaging wrecks someone else killed) that the other person might consider theft.
You get an extra 1/3rd profit by going after gneiss from someone else’s moon mine than you would from mining the best high sec ores.
If you’re in low/null… you aren’t worrying about normal ores with moons though. Everything above Coesite is more valuable than gneiss.
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