Hey CCP and all those Trolls, (as I know I;m going to get trolled by all those high sec griefing corps.)
The war dec mechanics are great by the way. Although there is one issue. There is no way to respond to a group of miners stealing ore in high from your Athanors. A group of multi boxes (possibly suspect botters) is free to mine your ore as much as they like. Unfortunately, there is no way to discourage this with the current game mechanics. While bumping is a thing it is hard for newer players to get in a good Battleship to support a fleet. You cannot war dec the corp that is stealing the ore as they most likely have no structures and you cannot shoot them without concord intervening.
So I propose a simple rule change (not sure how simple it is to code though). Use the access list for the structure to allow mining. While stealing the ore should still be possible, if not on the access list the offender should get a suspect flag.
Unfortunately this mechanic is currently allowing a number of smart ganking / griefing groups to exploit newer players in high sec and turn them away from the game.
I dont know how that acces-list works, but if you apear on it only after you mined and the owner after the fact can flip it so “dat guy, suspect now!”, wouldn’t that in a way undermine the safety-setting?
Asside from this, I disagree with ‘suspect’ flag. Limited engagement, with the structure/owner, maybe.
How does that work? Surely newer players will always be a in a position to mine someone else’ moon ore long before they have isk/ skills to set up and then mine their own? I certainly was. In fact, I cut my teeth and earned my first billion isk by ninja mining low sec moon ore when it was first introduced. Otherwise, I was mainly hisec ice mining or travelling between anoms to find decent ore. Both of which activities went out the window when 0.5 moons arrived. (Although I did still ninja mine.)
Mine it first. This sounds trite, but it serves as a reminder that mining is PvP. All miners compete for limited resources, and moon resources are no different.
If you do have issues with others mining it, try shuffling up your timing so the moon hauls drop when they’re not online.
If all else fails, keep a few suicide gank alts handy. They’re quick to train and easy to use, and unlike bumping, they require far less time on your part to discourage mining.
Bottom line: you’re dropping a bunch of valuable stuff into open space. You don’t own said valuable stuff, you just own the structure used to produce it.
Side note: It’s worth noting that hisec PvPers were upset when can flipping stopped being viable. These same hisec PvPers would probably love nothing more than to see a new way to go suspect in a belt to mess with local miners. So…be careful what you wish for…
Given how Crimewatch and killrights work in general right now, I highly doubt that CCP will issue a kill right for property theft/damage. If they were to change that (which could happen, but I don’t think needs to), I doubt that they would change it only for moon ore, so it’d be part of some wider-scope change.
Wardecs are out as an option; not only would CCP have to introduce some sort of new mechanic for war against non-war eligible player corps, war against an NPC corp pretty much can’t happen, ever.
So, that leaves suspect flags.
I could maybe see CCP changing the new moon-specific asteroids (and only them, since they are unique to this situation) to belong to the corporation/alliance of the station that mined them so they’d be more like mission loot and anyone else mining them went suspect. But I guarantee you that miners would change their tune really quick when the PvPers start gaming that system and killing miners wholesale.
Case in point: I warp to a moon belt in a mining ship and have my alt in an Orca supporting me. I start mining moon ore, go suspect, and oh look, the local miners attack me. I swap ships using my Orca in to something a bit more combat oriented, blap the miners, and keep right on mining. So in order for this to work and not result in the wholesale slaughter of hisec miners, you’d have to change two core game mechanics (moon ore ownership and access to ship maintenance bays).
Or, you know, you could just mine it faster or gank your competition.
Been there, can flipped, mined while suspect. Battle procs baiting other miners is a thing, though normally they decline to engage and you just get to steal half their jetcans for an hour.
But yeah… Jet can flipping was totally OP when miners had no cargo space, and died because miners actually got viable barges with space for ore.
As for swapping ships, sure, go for it. Either the miners can’t match you, or their support miners with boosts and shield reps rep through your dps and kill you anyway and get a shiny kill from it. Sounds fine to me.
You’re both talking about baiting rather than actually mining. And that’s the problem.
There’s no way an actual mining fleet, comprised of miners, for the purposes of mining, and being a miner, that mines, because they like to mine, and is doing do for purposes other than to bait is going to sit in a belt and try to mine for 6-8 hours whilst suspect.
The exception being perhaps large groups who can chew through a belt in a short space of time.
Small groups however, they’ll either burn out or just go back to normal belts because the extra isk from moon belts really aint worth that much more.
Just like the ganking nerfs and the crimewatch nerfs, this is another way to push out small groups from content.
Or said small group can actually wardec said moon owner and fight them for the moon. Who being highsec will also be a small group
And it also per my suggestion solves the war deccers complaint about only the structure being at risk, not the miners in a safe Corp.
You’re saying a small group should put up an 500mil structure, then spend 100mil on merely the privilege to go to war and if they win they then put up another 800mil structure.
Or they can mine in sub optimal fits whilst suspect and paying close attention to the game for a few hours before burning out.
Or they can just mine anoms and belts for ~80% isk/hour but with far less fatigue.
We’re honestly not going to see much of the first two. Sending moon ore thieves suspect is just going to be another way to stop small groups/noobs getting content (ore) and instead turn them into mining clones or renters for bigger established groups.
Whereas now, those bigger groups can’t be lazy with their ore or they’ll have it mined from under them. Proper mining pvp.
And in return, you should get flagged every time you scan someone’s hold, ore or otherwise, as there is no legitimate, lore-based reason why you should do that, unless you are CONCORD or Customs looking for contraband?
There is no “right” to privacy in EvE however. Just as I do not believe there is any “right” to ownership of moon ore. But if you do go down that route for moon ore how would you then avoid the whataboutery argument of the “right” to also own salvage on a ship you shot? Or, the “right” to keep your hold contents private, as that information could only be of interest to potential gankers?
Just out of curiosity, would anyone here who has posted they want a flag for mining moon ore, also want a flag for taking salvage? Or a flag for scanning cargoholds?
Or, do any of you think there is other content that should gain a suspect flag?