The point is the moon ore only exists because the structure owner made it. So they should have some rights. wrecks you get the right to loot because you shot it. Salvage is a funny exception but eh, loot rights at least already exist and are similarly comparable.
Correct me if Iâm wrong, but you donât have a right to loot wrecks from ships you have killed âillegallyâ.
Anyways, the ârightâ to something is semantics when compared to what leads good gameplay. And i donât see that suspect for moon ore thieves does. I fully expect the opposite to happen where people will stop stealing ore on any decent scale and the structure owners will enjoy getting fat and lazyâŚ
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The fact we already have loot rights is (I agree) a better argument than most that creating an ore field should give something similar. That would still beg the question though as to why should salvage remain as an exception?
Which allows me to circle back to the original question as to why then have the facility to scan a ship without flag if there is no âlegalâ reason to do so?
I donât disagree. But then I am biased as the vast majority of my ore already comes from moons. If flags were introduced I would probably just ninja mine in LS more often, with ice as back-up.
Flags for moon mining could make conduit mining more attractive. But now that roaming fleets warp into closed conduits, I doubt that.
Criminal actions yeah you donât get loot rights. But not criminal actions like shooting a suspect or NPC you do get loot rights.
Suspect flag for anyone not in Corp would create two things.
Risk for owners. Miners currently can mine out of Corp with only ganked risk, which as gankers are fond of claiming can be easily managed. Suspect for anyone out of corp/alliance forces the miners to be war targets if they want the isk.
Risk for ninja miners while still allowing them to try it. Yes many may not keep going once their fat easy cash cow is not so easy. But like anything in EVE, you want the isk, take the risk.
This also encourages them to join the corps owning structures, which finally creates am advantage to growing a Corp in high sec.
As always, be careful what you wish for.
Mining is not considered a hostile act (nor is scanning). If you wish to have asteroid âownershipâ similar to creation of wrecks then it is also fair to add a weapons timer and 15min logoff timer to the act of mining.
Funny how wrecks/cans have the colour attribute to show ownership but asteroids do not. I think this is obviously intended, and I donât think ownership of rocks in space should become a thing.
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We already have a weapons timer when using an orca to boost. And adding a logoff timer as well would be relatively minor.
That works both ways. The simplest solution to the discussion on this thread would be to un-flag looting. From either wrecks or cans. That would solve the apparent discrepancies of why you can salvage but cannot loot without a flag. And also why can you shoot a ship and own its wreck but not shoot a moon and own the debris. Either flag them all. Or un-flag them all.
Youâre absolutely right. And I have no doubt that implementing a suspect flag for moon ore will deter actual miners, although I didnât explicitly say this before.
I was simply pointing out that refinery owners would likely pay for their more private moon ore with some lost ships along the way.
I wholeheartedly agree. I donât think suspect flagging for mining moon ores is a good idea.
You produce the ore, itâs your responsibility to mine it first before someone else mines it out form under you.
Some of the best salt Iâve ever tasted was warping to someoneâs can and shoveling all their ore into my tanked/ stabbed out Miasmos and flying away laughing as the hate flew in from local, mails and private messages.
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Hehe but who other than the extremely lazy jet-cans these days?
No, really, Iâd like to send an itty V or Nereus out that way. 
Avoid Having Your Moon Rocks Mined Out From Under You, A Step By Step Guide!
Step 1: Get out of Hisec and into a nice little C1/H or C3/H wormhole that has a LOT of moons. A Black Hole would be a decided advantage if youâre Drone mining.
Step 2: Setup Athanors on all the moons you wish to mine. You wonât need a Fortizar unless you plan on deploying a Rorqual, which I would very strongly advise against unless youâre running max-duration moon cracks and are happy to lose one every now and again.
Step 3: Prior to cracking the 'roid with your mighty moon lazorz, roll away all incoming connections. You now have ~3âish hours of relative safety barring any wandering incoming connections which will instantly show in your probe scanner window (more reliable intel than Local chat in 0.0 this weekend just quietly).
Step 4: Profit?
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How about we just remove moon mining from high sec? It worked for 15 years.
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if talking about Athanorâs, till you pony up some cash or James doesâŚyou dont own â â â â .
This again? Seriously if you are going to go through the trouble to anchor a station on a moon use the available mechanics in the game to keep people you donât want there off of it. This is a game off alts Gank alts, War Dec Alts blah blah blah. Grow a pair and fight for what you put up in space.
People are literally asking to be able to fight for what they put up in space.
You saying this is straight up stupid when people want to be able to do that. Expecting people to run entire alt fleets of gankers is just silly.
Now to the topic actual.
Suspect flagging is not required for Moon mining in Highsec.
Get off your arse, stop using orcas without exhumer and or barge support and get those rocks first.
Have trouble with other orcasâŚhave some fleet stabbers at hand to bump with.
Anything elseâŚjust gank it with extreme prejudice.
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I do it quite frequently. Usually in LS, where itâs not so much laziness as risk avoidance. Especially if I have to jump between systems to empty cargo. I have found it better to mine for as long as possible by jet-canning instead, and then maybe jump between systems to fetch a hauler once an hour.
The few times I do it in HS it is due to greed, not laziness. Once an ice belt has been invaded by 5-12 ship multibox it will be gone in 1-2 hours. Better to just take the risk and bump out cans over a max 90 minute period rather than lose 15-20 min during that time on round trips.
Hereâs the thing when it comes to ore its not yours until you have it in your ship or better yet in a station. No matter how anyone feels even resources created in space by your corp arenât yours until they are in a ship or station. Therefore the station is yours not the moon. You say running an alt fleet of gankers is silly maybe it is but it keeps kill rights off your miners and those who you donât want there off the belt your created. If thy bring orcas you bump them off and if you got enough alts you gank those to.
I have an each way bet on this suggestion. I would support nerfing 0.5 moons of all LS ore types (ABC, gneiss etc), but keep the low grade moon goo and the high-end variations of regular HS ore.
That does not âsolveâ the issue of moon belt ownership but it would make the value of/ competition for these belts to be much less.
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I thought we wanted more competition and interaction?
Yes yes⌠you are hard-core, we know.
However it is inconsistent with loot rights.
And if it is restricted to corp/alliance rather than ACL it also makes the miners be exposed to the risk of wardecs, rather than hide in an NPC Corp or alt Corp.
So it creates more in space risk all around.
One would think you would be on board with that, given your hard-core approach⌠Or are you really just wanting to steal others moon ore at no risk, while pretending to be an elite pvper.