Moon belts should have corp ownership, and mining a moon belt generated by another corp should give you a suspect flag. Especially with the new war dec mechanics we’ve seen corps come into our belts who don’t own a PoS and we can’t do anythign about it. We pay to generate the belt. I would liken this to stealing ore from a quarry that has just blased it free from the rock. That’s a criminal offence. So we need mechanics similar to stealing from a jet can. If the corp can’t enforce it through lack of PvP pilots, or wants to choose not to enforce it (maybe even add an “abandon” like wrecks and cans), fine. But this is getting rediculous.
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Nope. You make it suspect, and no one will do it ever again.
Make em eligible for wardecs for a month or two.
I don’t agree turning them suspects, cause the moon stuff dont belong to the corp that generated it, so no crime committed. I agree with making them elegible to wardec only by the corp who generated the moon stuff, and for a week only. A week is time enough to send a message. BUT what about given player is in NPC Corp?
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Blockquote
I don’t agree turning them suspects, cause the moon stuff dont belong to the corp that generated it
I disagree with that entirely. From the moment the laser carves the chunk from the moon it is then corp property. The corp has used its resources to dig, move, then blast that piece of rock.
To draw a real life comparison it’s like saying a company that has mined ore, transported materials by truck (eve case tractor beam) then dumped it in a pile next to their reprocessing centre to await the next stage of processing (eve - being broken into smaller chunks by the miners) doesn’t own that pile of ore. Of course they do. They have a license to remove that ore from where it sat naturally (as the corp does to mine the moon, else it would not be legal in high sec), just because there’s a stage where any idiot can pull up with a truck, load their truck, and drive off with it doesn’t mean the corporation doesn’t own it. From the moment you turn the laser on then the corp is claiming ownership, and to take from it should be illegal. Now getting concorded would be a bit too much balance wise, but being suspect in eve is the same as being detained by a private security guard. Or perhaps more akin to those large areas in africa owned by diamond mines where people can be shot on site for simply entering an area that is miles away from any of their mines (yes this really is a thing). But giving refineries a KoS area would be… rediculous. Suspect status makes more sense from an immersion/setting standpoint.
Well if we going to compare to RL then:
1: the corp paid proper taxes to explore space bodies?
2: do the corp have a proper licence from “put any main power here” to explore bodies in their space?
3: do the corp have a plan recognized by the local power assuring the safety of the operation, and declaring it will cover any damage from chunks that occasionally leave the operation area and damage nearby stations?
4: do the corp have the proper certificate about the quality of the product mined before driven into matket?
5:
6
7
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.
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Will leave the rest to your imagination. Compare the game to RL is the primordial mistake.
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I’m not trying to draw RL parallels to impose them on the game, I am attempting to draw your attention to the fact that there’s an error in your thinking that because something is somewhere someone can take it, means that it isn’t owned. What I am saying is that currently there is a problem in the game mechanics that’s not only an imbalance mechanics wise but doesn’t fit with the aesthetic and lore of the setting which is one of extreme corporate influence and control. There’s been lots of lore based examples of how much control of ownership corps have in eve, one recently where a capsuleer supported refugee evacuation was threatened by legal action simply becuase they had landed on a planet without permission. It does not make sense, in this setting, that a corporation that has spent resources on something does not own that something.
If you want a game example. I mine, I jet can for the hauler to pick it up, someone takes it. They have stolen it, I can shoot them. In the moon case, I have mined the moon, I have tractored it into space for my miners to pick up, people are stealing it, I should be able to shoot them.
Sharing is caring. Save the greed til’ after the holidays.
Come on stoner, be fair. I did suggest the ability to abandon the ore also.
And if I’m honest, If someone asked nicely if they can share the ore, I would probably let them take some of it. But these rude people just turn up and take.
Nah, suspect flag is too much. If you want to enforce your claim, you should have to shoot them, not hope the rest of New Eden will do it for you.
Ideally, there would be some sort of limited engagement flag given to members of the corp that owns the Refinery that allows them to legally engage the interloper but not the other way around. Not only would this allow people to defend their claim, but also would give a reason for people not to use shell corps. If they shoot, the ore thief of course gets a flag to shoot them back, much like the current limited engagement timer.
Too bad such a flag doesn’t exist. But I am all for something like that if CCP can find the time to implement it.
personally, i would not accept this proposal unless it was tied to Access Lists, anybody not the correct access list would go suspect.
@ Everyone elsse arguing against…next time be smart, say sure good idea, I support it…((then hope it means all those holding corps have to be real corps or control of moons returned to the main corps…so you can dec them and kill them… (is it just me or are EvE vets getting more stupid at playing the meta?))
Yes that’s the point in new Eden generating some moon chunks don’t give you ownership over it. Done. I agree that you must have a way to defend your investment , so the idea y can wardec given corp for a week is a solution, but that still the problem of players in NPC corporations
I think the suspect flag is a good idea, it will create more content in high sec for sure and it would mean that the “thieves” would need to back up their pillaging with some PVP ships to overwatch their miners, If the corp who “owns” the ore cannot field a fleet to protect it they can pay mercenaries to do it, or they will have to sit and watch it get mined and watch the fireworks as CODE or some other lowlife high sec entity come in and smash them.
+1 from me.
You don’t know how suspect works.
Get in a mack, go steal some ore cans from people. Take your buddies and they can watch over you…literally, as they sure as hell can’t defend you.
Good point, well made. I had indeed forgotten about that small aspect of it. Still content though as the owners can come out to fight for what they believe is theirs against whoever has gone suspect.
Its not going to happen. No one is going to sit in a barge in a belt for any length of time whilst suspect. This doesn’t increase content, it does the opposite.
A wardec allows for theft to happen, and for the refinery owner to take vengeance. If they try to keep stealing ore, you can keep deccing them. They’ll get the message, or you’ll get to shoot them wherever they are (not just in your belt). And your structure can shoot wartargets, i dont believe it can shoot suspects.
I don’t see the need.
You control when your laser fires and when the chunk fractures after you fire. Get your act together and mine it out before the others notice.
Well… they could repair your ship, right? That’s kind of defending.
Two things:
- EHP of a barge vs volley damage.
- Logi going suspect themselves, and are sitting ducks…
This isn’t a station or gate remember. You don’t wait out aggro whilst getting ready to dock or jump. The logi wing would need to be disproportionately large compared to the mining group. No one will do it, much like neutral logi became much more rare after the crime watch changes. Only it will be worse because of the exposure of sitting in the asteroid field for HOURS.
If you want miners to go suspect, then you just want to nerf mining other peoples belts so hard that no one ever does it again. That’s not content. It is the opposite of content.
You want to give players the opportunity to be the villain, and then give players the tools to apply their own justice. You don’t want to make things so immediately punishing that no one will ever be the villain and everyone blues each other.
I don’t disagree with any of your arguments, but it seems that you are only seeing half of the situation. Everything you described also perfectly reflects the other side of the argument.
If miners do not go suspect, they have way too much EHP to be ganked as a normal course of action, and bumping is too easily avoided unless it’s an Orca. It nerfs the ability to respond to ninja mining so hard that no one ever does it.
I have participated in corp mining ops specifically for these moon rocks. And even with around thirty people on the field, it can take hours. There’s a lot of opportunity for theft even with a decent-sized group trying to vacuum it all up. It’s fine to want a middle ground, but you can’t sit there and proclaim you don’t want a situation to end up like “so”, when it’s already like that.
Given that not every moon rock is going to be manned as well as ours, and there’s a very large timeframe to engage it, I think a suspect flag is perfectly fine. It’s fine enough to take ships into wormholes for that exact purpose, it should be fine enough to take a few ships into someone else’s field. Since people have already complained about having a very small group (1-5 people) to mine these moon rocks, that gives ninja miners plenty of opportunities around the cluster.
Look, the logi thing was me just being a stickler… not about the real effectiveness. While it might not be a good answer, the reality is you COULD defend another miner with logi. I’m not saying anyone should.
My corp had some high sec moon belts in the past. (not at the moment though) When someone tried to mooch off the belt… we changed the time. 99% of the time they went somewhere else. In the one case where the person persisted after that… we simply copied CODE and came with Catalysts and had some fun. it was only ever an issue to begin with because the miners in our corp mined lowsec and null sec belts before bothering with the high sec ones. That’s why we don’t have the high sec ones anymore… people stopped bothering to mine them at all. Our nullsec ones only exist for a few hours before only having crap ore left in them.
I don’t want miners going suspect. I think people are whining too much about it. Catalysts are cheap. Alpha accounts who can fly them are cheap to create and using an alpha alt to gank those mining your crap won’t impact your main accounts sec status. And if you can’t vacuum up the ore in a few hours… you have too many belts or not enough corp members to warrant running moon extraction.