HS Moon mining ore protection system. Will it be?


(Cyrill Windblade) #1

Hi all! This topic i whant dedicate to high-sec moon mining. In common this is good idea IMHO but one thing makes me total mad. This thing i named “random miners”. I think you can understand what i mean. When anybody can came to your moon belt and mine free. I think this is not fair. I will explain why in my opinion.

1. You buy citadel + fuel + rigs + moduls - spend money. And anybody can farm moon ore even without taxes. That means you lost money without any mechanic to save it.

2. Some guys told me - man in HS all ore is public and all miins is public too so idea of private belt is trash. I dont agree. Yes - moons are public but moon rock that was drilled by my Athanor or Tatara should be private rock of citadels owners and i must have mechanic to protect him from random miners who came to mine without my agreetment.

3. You can say - man ok. There is many mechanics to protect. Off. wars (except NPC miners) bamp system or suicide (aha - suicide orcas - i believe its possible). But all this mechanics dont save belt - bampers came agains off. wars dont work on NPC corp miners and suicide is wery risky idea (actually when more then 1 orcas came). So the only one way i see - is to make sovereign 0.5 moon ore belts with suspect system for all random miners. From the one side - it will give HS moonminers official mechanic to protect belts + free PvP such on events beacons etc.

4. Somebody can say - ok man. Keep more pilots in corp or twink acc. to take ore fast before another one came. Agree. But A.) Why should i must agree with somw form of contest in my private ore. B.) This not granted that small mining fleet will come in belt while owners mining and will start mine parallel. So this is not exit.

Summon all that i wrote. A.) I see problem here and think that protect mechanic need. What mechanic exactly - i dont know. Suspect - is my own offer to CCP. B.) I whant to hear another opinions - may be i am wrong in something. So i call foum to discuss this theme. Will be wery good if someone from CCP will write something about this question.


(Arthur Aihaken) #2
  1. There didn’t used to be any moon mining in high-sec, so you can’t exactly complain that it’s “unfair”.
  2. All HS ore is public; first-come, first-serve.
  3. No.
  4. Like it or lump it.

(Black Pedro) #3

Here are CCP Fozzie’s comments on this from just before the feature was introduced into highsec:


(Sister Stetille) #4

First, the cost to install and operate a refinery is pretty muniscule. About 1.25b to setup and 85m recurring cost. Considering this, it takes maybe 2 weeks to pay off initial install and a couple hours to pay for fuel. The argument that you are losing money to “randoms” is a bit of a stretch.

Second, if you are a large enough Corp to need a refinery, then you should be large enough to dominate it’s ore. After all, you are the one that cracks the moon chunks, your fleet should be up and ready to mine. “Randoms” have to actively hunt moon belts so you should always have a head start.

I am an active moon miner, and I never get upset with people “stealing my ore” and I certainly don’t feel bad about returning the favor when I see a flwet of afk orcas mining “thier” belt.


(Erethond) #5

I’m not structure owner, so I don’t know the details, but there is a way to limit who can see your structure in the overview. A lot of “randoms” will go around in 0.5 systems to check the refineries they can find quickly. Only a very small % of those will actually check every moon for unseen refineries.

That might be a way to limit the number of visitors you get.


(Sister Stetille) #6

It’s easier to use your dscan and warp to planet clusters. Structures can’t hide from dscan.


(Arthur Aihaken) #7

No, there’s no way to hide your structure.


(Cyrill Windblade) #8

See - people wrote that it is impossible to hide! Please tell us the way how to do it (if you know)!


(Cyrill Windblade) #9

Thanks for repost Fozzy (actually i read this theme in february). Such as another guys i dont agree with his idea. If you will read comments under Fozzys answer you will see that his idea falls under good critic. For example i will add one of them. May be because Fozzy and his friends understand wrong way of their idea about moon mining protect mechanic in HS, he cant find better counterargument then put smile.


(Cyrill Windblade) #10

Agree with you. But:

1. I dont think that all miners in EVE is such philanthropists like you are.
2. Coming from 1st - if you whant someone to farm with you as you wrote - no problem. You can give access to all pilots (such as docking in station) and there will be no problems. But someone may be dont whant to make this scenario (for example solo miners or small mining HS corps). They whant to save each isk. For them will be actually good if there will be some kind of protect system (suspect battle flag etc.) for they could defend their moon field from uncalling guests (if they will try to mine).
3. In common - tell me please why do you not agree with idea of making protect system and give each owner of athanors or tataras in 0.5 ss make own choice - get free access to moon belts or not. And take mechanic to defend ore if it will be needed? + read reposted answer to Fozzy about opportunitys of HS PvP. For me - very good idea.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #11

they only BS with structures is you can’t tax compression.

you don’t want people mining the belt shoot them, it’s how you have to do it in every other area of space. You don’t like CONCORD mechanics? don’t set one up in HS


(Solstice Projekt) #12

You can gank them, you can bump them, or you can not deserve the ore you want. What makes you think that you deserve it, when you fail to discourage people away from it? Ganking alts are so cheap, they are FREE. Get your collective, whiny rear ends together and teach them a lesson.

Show some spine, man, ya know?


(Lena Crews) #13

They generally won’t know when your moon will pop. So if you mine it out fast… you’re good.

Also, have your corp create alpha accounts and train for gank catalysts. Someone warps into your belt… pull out the gank alt and kill them.


(Sister Stetille) #14

A timer is not a preventative measure, at best it’s a deterant. At worst, it is a method to bait miners into a one sided fight.


(Rapscallion Jones) #15

I have just one thing to say:

Take my love, take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don’t care, I’m still free
You can’t take the sky from me.

Take me out to the black
Tell them I ain’t comin’ back
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can’t take the sky from me.

Leave the men where they lay
They’ll never see another day
Lost my soul, lost my dream
You can’t take the sky from me.

I feel the black reaching out
I hear its song without a doubt
I still hear and I still see
That you can’t take the sky from me.

Lost my love, lost my land
_Lost the last place I could stand _
There’s no place I can be
Since I’ve found Serenity

And you can’t take the sky from me.

And that’s all you have in Eve!


(Ryan B Thiesant) #16

I agree, why doesn’t anyone see this as a majorly broken thing.

I am a miner who will gladly exploit the hard work of a refinery owner. And if asked will kick back.

I am thinking of two feature requests to this;
a. being able to set permissions on the moon ore belt.
b. And being able to set taxes on it.

The consequences of setting permissions, a suspect timer.
The consequences of mining a tax on the ore mined. Else why have an ore ledger.

How can this work? I’m not CCP and neither are you.

Just ask and it will be done.

How I would do it.
Personally a tax mining ores can work like the market, you buy something you pay a tax.
So mine something and pay a tax.

Everyone who has flipped a can or looted a wreck knows about suspect timers. You loot “mine without permission”, then you get a suspect timer.

On closing.
If you continue to moon mine for free there will be less moon mining. The refineries will need to close. If you go to low or null to mine, you risk your ship and time. So why not pay a little to escape this.

That is all.

Ryan


(QuakeGod) #17

Yes, please implement this. I’d send in a fleet of Rattlers and bastioned Golems with mining drones, get the suspect timer, and wait for a miner stupid enough to attack…


(Ryan B Thiesant) #18

That is a good point. But suspect timers always bring opportunity.

Maybe the miner is bait and is waiting for its prey.

Or perhaps the refinery will blap it before that.

Sounds like I get you vote. Moon ore suspect timers are in.


(QuakeGod) #19

That could get quite entertaining. At which point I’d just send in a neutral Mach or two and bump their Orcas and freighters into the next dimension…


(Ryan B Thiesant) #20

Do higs rigs affect mass, and could they be used to negate bumping?