T2 battleship class: "Raid Battleship"

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
1

notes: i was originally going to call them Incursion, Convoy or even Flag Battleship to make its role more explicit somehow allthought the intended role and features gets a bit blurry. my posts are usually throwaway ideas instead of serious suggestions so there’s a lot of inconsistencies usually.

Concept:

Raid Battleships represent a new strain of the battleship line oriented for regular fleet operations. unlike the Marauder which is designed for solitary activities in hostile environments or the Black Ops battleship designed for espionage operations in company of other stealth based hulls, the Raid Battleship is designed to serve as gateway and support for the fleet it commands or it makes part, in a manner similar to a miniaturized Titan or a larger Hictor.

Traits:

-“Tier3” battleships as base hull
-Mobile Disruption capabilities via a new “Cyno Inhibition Field Generator”
-jump and bridge capablities thanks to a new “Microjump Portal Generator” (basically a less consuming, subcap focused jump portal generator)
-defensive focus
-designed for small operations with smaller fuel bays
-combat capable but not a main damage platform

The Hulls:

1. Warlock( Khanid Innovations):

-Amarr Battleship bonuses per lvl:
4% bonus to all armor resistances, 5% bonus to Rapid Heavy, Torpedo and Cruise Missile Launcher rate of fire

-Raid Battleship bonuses per lvl:
10% range bonus to Cyno Inhibition Field Generator, 5% reduction in Microjump Portal Generator fuel requirements

-8 highs (6 launchers)
-4 mids
-7 lows

-can fit Microjump Portal Generators and Cyno Inhibition Field Generators
-model and stats based on the Abaddon

2. Pelican (Ishukone):

-Caldari Battleship bonuses per lvl:
4% bonus to all shield resistances, 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range

-Raid Battleship bonuses per lvl:
10% range bonus to Cyno Inhibition Field Generator, 5% reduction in Microjump Portal Generator fuel requirements

-8 highs (6 turrets)
-7 mids
-4 lows

-can fit Microjump Portal Generators and Cyno Inhibition Field Generators
-model and stats based on the Rokh

3. Atlas (Duvolle Labs):

-Gallente Battleship bonuses per lvl:
7,5% bonus to armor repair effectiveness, 5% bonus to Large hybrid turret damage

-Raid Battleship bonuses per lvl:
10% range bonus to Cyno Inhibition Field Generator, 5% reduction in Microjump Portal Generator fuel requirements

-8 highs (6 turrets)
-5 mids
-6 lows

-can fit Microjump Portal Generators and Cyno Inhibition Field Generators
-model and stats based on the Hyperion

4. Zweihander (Core Complexion Inc.):

-Minmatar Battleship bonuses per lvl:
7,5% bonus to shield boost amount, 5% bonus to Rapid Heavy, Torpedo and Cruise Missile Launcher damage

-Raid Battleship bonuses per lvl:
10% range bonus to Cyno Inhibition Field Generator, 5% reduction in Microjump Portal Generator fuel requirements

-8 highs (6 launchers)
-6 mids
-5 lows

-can fit Microjump Portal Generators and Cyno Inhibition Field Generators
-model and stats based on the Maesltrom

About the Cyno Inhibition Field Generator:

when i originally thought about the Raid Battleships the idea was that they were sort of like a flagship, being able to bridge the fleet but also provide some kind of utility during combat. Logistics and EWAR were the first things to come to mind but it would probably take out the job of EAFs and Logi Cruisers so i opted for looking into other ways of disruptiing enemy effectiveness. thus came the idea of these battleships being able to project a Cyno Jamming field via a special module which i thought it was more logical than give a specialized Deployables Hangar to the ship in order to carry the Mobile Cyno Inhibitors we already have in the game.

Cyno Inhibition Field Generators are a new active module that fuses the technology of the Mobile Cyno Inhibitor and the Warp Disruption Field Generator. the module is intended to have less range than the deployable as tradeoff for being equipped on a mobile source.

the base ranges for this module were thought to be around 30-40 km, or even 50 km cyno jamming range, much larger than a Hictor bubble but still small enough to not overshadow the deployable structure (which has 100km effect range once online). perhaps have some kind of script but im not sure what would be the tradeoff taking in account they only disrupt ships from jumping inside.

-traits:

  1. inmovilizes the ship that carries it
  2. has a cooldown period before the ship can gain mobility once deactivated
  3. smaller range compared to a Mobile Cyno Inhibitor
  4. larger range than warp disruption bubbles
  5. instant cyno jamming and cancels out any beacon active both for the attacker and the defenders
  6. doesnt disrupt warping

About the Microjump Portal Generator:

as i said above, the Raid Capital is designed to bridge a fleet of subcaps in order to unleash havoc on the unsuspectfull. unlike blops this means a larger array of options, but there’s an issue. Titans provide this service already, so i thought, why still need a supercap to do this work when technology has gotten to the point of allowing a Destroyer to Microjump a fleet?

the Microjump Portal Generator is the answer to this. its a miniaturized version of the Titan Jump Portal which instead of limiting the access to covert ships like it happens with a BLOPs, allows any kind of Subcap to jump.

there’s still the catch that you need a ship to light the Cyno on the other side but this is pretty much the same for all bridges and jumpdrives so no big deal. with this tool, a subcap fleet is capable of moving around systems without having to go against gatecamps and without the need of a capital ship to open the bridge for them, all while the bridging ship can travel with the fleet and participate thanks to its disruption module.

-traits:

  1. less fuel consumption
  2. less distance coverage
  3. shorter activation cycle
  4. works only with subcapital ships
  5. jump fatigue still applies
  6. has a cooldown period before a new portal can be opened
4 Likes
2

T3 Battleship, no
2 new modules, no

Is that minus 3 or minus 1; the suggestion has 3 items so I think it is minus 3 :smile:

3

You wrote all that for nothing

1 Like
4

No, they just nerfed t3 cruisers. There is no need or demand for OP battleships. :see_no_evil:

5

i’ve never mentioned T3 battleships. i said “Tier 3” which means the third battleship hulls of each empire (back when the game was based on tiers).

also i dont get how it could be considered OP to have a specialized subcap ship being able to bridge other subcaps and itself apart of protecting the fleet from getting jumped on by capital spam. care to explain?

1 Like
6

T2 BS can already use jump portals. Your idea is moot.

Edited for spelling.

7

I don’t really think we need a raid battleship, but I do think battleships in general are still in need of a lot of love due to the way the balance curve or rather line graph (if you wanna call it) works in this game.

Basically, whatever buffs or whatever else is done with battleships, there needs to be at least some, at least specialized battleships, that can take out dreds the same exact way that cruisers now take out battleships.

Close that balance gap. there could be a ton of different ways to do this, make some modules “a la” ADC that could be equipable only by battleships and work only against xl+ weapons, make a battleship that can equip xl weapons kinda like some battlecruisers can equip large weapons, make a specific anti-fighter battleship, or just make these into modules. I mean all sorts of things can be done and let the shenanigans ensue. I just don’t think making a raid battlehips is a good thing.

Incidentally, with the damage scaling CCP had an opportunity with Leshaks to make them exactly that, cap kill capable ships, but as always, their implimentation sucks major arse and they blew it yet again.

2 Likes
8

only Titans can use the regular Jump Portal according to the module info. and the Covert Jump Portal only allows stealth capable ships to jump.

edited the OP for clarification.

1 Like
9

i thought at some point about a “Monitor” class battleship. but that idea has been proposed frequently in the forums and in some fanart works.

they dont seem to want messing around with something like that taking in account how much of a balance mess was with ABCs.

i’d rather see a battleship that provides some kind of utility on the battlefield. i’ve yet have to see a Marauder doing fleet work or a Blops working on a non stealth fleet. (perhaps due to the costs of those ships, can understand)

this is more or less the idea, adding a battleship that covers a niche that hasnt been exploited yet, more than a “what we need?” is a “what could we do?”. the ship provides disruption in the form of Cyno Jamming module and is also capable of jumping the fleet with a module focused specifically for bridging subcaps.

rest of the kit could be changed to make it less of a powerhouse but i dont think 6 turrets/launchers will be much of an issue, perhaps take out 1 high from each and give it to the mids/lows for tankiness as they are supposed to be like a Hictor or similar.

1 Like
10

The tier 3 battleships are way overdue for new hulls, as they have no variants like other ships do. One concern is that the tier 3’s are the tankiest of the base battleships, and it would be a shame if the T2 version couldn’t even keep up with the Marauders’ beastly defenses, since the proposed new ships don’t seem to include the use of bastion.

And I have to agree with @Fluffy_Moe and other threads that touch on the subject, that there should be battleships that bridge some of the gap towards capitals.

1 Like
11

yeah, i’ve thought of ways to close that gap a bit but it seems people gets concerned for powercreep. when in reality there’s a really big jump between BS and Cap. i see it more like an infunded fear after seeing what happened with the old Tier3 Battlecruisers (Talos, Tornado, Naga and Oracle).

in order to fit XL weapons those battleships would have to sacrifice a lot of tank, perhaps end with stats similar to those of Black Ops. and there’s the inconsistency of whether they should be T1 or T2 hulls. as ABCs are classified as T1 and dont have a specialized version.

i think a concession could be achieved not on the damage potential but on the utility potential. Marauders can enter siege, Black Ops can bridge stealth fleets and jump. the Nestor allows refitting for the rest of the fleet (allthought this shouldnt apply to a single, expensive faction hull, WTF with SoE).

in this case i proposed taking the Jump Portal capability of the Titan and miniaturize it into a battleship that can also work as an anti-Cyno projector.

there’s other aspects of capitals that could be looked on and applied. i chose the Tier 3 battleships for this concept because they dont have a variation yeah, and also because their raw stats may provide coupled with some minor adjustments.

the use of a Bastion shouldnt be needed for this, perhaps being capable of using Assault Damage Controls but this would only provide more to the power of these vessels.

1 Like
12

If you’re using a blops battleship for scouting/camping, you’ve got serious issues and should seek professional help.

What you’re describing is a blops battleship, with extra toys and more tank. While I 100% support the blops battleship having more than paper products for its tank, these would invalidate a substantial number of hulls:

  • HICs
  • Dics
  • Titans (honestly, bridging is 99.9% of a Titan’s day to day)
  • Covert T3Cs with links (I mean, you did say they’re supposed to support a fleet so I’d expect links, even though you said nothing about them).
  • Blops battleships

Now… if you’d like to come towards reality a bit, I made a suggestion a little while back that kind of fits what you’re looking for. Splitting blops battleships into 2 lines, much like Recons are both Force and Combat variants (with similar design paradigms). THIS would be much closer to both what you want and to what is slightly balanced.

As for these:

I’m not at all opposed to a spool-up cyno inhib, but at this point we’re firmly in blops territory where the ability to ambush and cut the nuts off of something is literally their MO.

13

This. One for jams and one for jumps. One buffer one active.

And I didnt know about the stealth only part of blops. More of a plate/extender up and go face to face viking beserker style guy.

14

this shouldnt step in the BLOPs role because those are designed for stealth operations. they cannot bridge anything apart of coverts and recons, and blockade runners (i think).

as for Hictors and Dictors, the Cyno Inhibition Field Generator doesnt work like the Warp Disruption Field Generator or the Warp Buble Launcher thingy.

its just a smaller Cyno Inhibitor that can be equipped and activated from the ship instead of having to deploy a structure.

when i said support it was in things not related to command bursts, logi or EWAR because apparently you cant take those roles due to the array of cruisers and frigates doing it. (because EAFs, Recons, Logis and Command Ships)

so i saw the deal with capital drops on subcap fleets and formulated the idea of a Cyno Jamming Battleship. either by being able to carry a Mobile Cyno Inhibitor on a special hangar or doing a role similar to the Dictor but not being able to open other types of bubbles like the ones used by those classes.

the Bridge part was because i wanted a ship that did something for the whole fleet. and Cyno Jamming didnt seem enough so i figured why not having a Microjump Generator, which became the Microjump Portal Generator of the OP. the module works only with subcaps which shouldnt mess around much with Titans because they can bridge ANY kind of ship.

that or the other option was making those ships able to use Microjump Field Generators, but i was fearing it would step ont he Command Destroyer role. Assault Damage Controls where at one point thought but Marauders already do the whole going in to ubertanking mode so why bother?

instead of that i opted to make them a passive tanked vessel. some of the bonuses are basic and based on the T1 hull but is mostly because i didnt want to deviate much from them by adding things like extra hitpoints per lvl or something like that.

15

While I dislike the jump generator idea, we dont need more tools for hotdropping, the idea of a heavier HIC on the other hand sounds interesting. Assuming is has drawbacks like the normal HICs bubble generator, I like the idea that you have a mobile platform that forbids the activation of a cyno in its range, additionally to the infinite point

16

good point. OP edited.

i thought jump fatigue was one of the drawbacks for hotdropping. perhaps if there was a cooldown period before the portal can be activated again. much like how it happens with MJDs. this could also apply to the Cyno Jammer module.

so in that case once the fleet is jumped and the jammer activates there has to be a waiting period before the battleship can regain mobility and before another portal can be opened. which should provide enough time for the attackers to arrive.

with proper intel the defending side could scuttle in a stealth ship on the possible targets and have it ready to light the Cyno out from the bubble range.

im sure there’s different strats that could be pulled out in that regard.

17

Bombers as well. But yes it does step on blops, because they aren’t meant for stealth operations… there’s literally nothing stealthy about dropping 50 dudes on an unsuspecting whale (it’s pretty funny to drop on a VNI, especially when you spend more on fuel than the kill is worth… the salt is worth it though).

Just because you say it isn’t restricted to covert ships doesn’t mean it doesn’t step on blops. It just means it steps on it harder because now you can take tougher ships and you aren’t limited to squishy covert ships. 100% promise blops drops will not use covert ships if they didn’t have to. Dropping a T1 combat fleet and letting it go straight to valhalla after the drop would be a very real thing.

The mechanics are different, but the effect is the same. Tell me why I should bring a HIC when I can bring a tankier version? Even a Dic, 9 times out of 10 they’re fit with a cloak… now you don’t need one because your cloaky ship can just be a cyno frigate, and you’ve got a hot-drop cyno/warp bubble.

So it supports the fleet by not doing anything related to support?

I’m not opposed to a spool-up cyno inhib. But it’s going to need a spoolup, just like the current mobile cyno inhibs. Shorter than 2 minutes, quite probably, but, just the same, it will need to be more than an instant iwin.

No… this completely conflicts with blops and titans. Relegating titan bridges down to bridging capital ships is nothing short of retarded because that is niche of niche stuff.

The other thing you need to consider is fuel bays… Titans have massive fuel bays/fleet hangers for fuel dropping. These would clearly not. Covert ships are generally nice and light. Your average subcaps would drain the fuel bay in 2-3 ships. Which means now you need a disproportionately large fuel bay as well.

That fear is justified and correct, it would invalidate command destroyers in a very large way.

ADCs are for assault craft. Had you called it an “Assault Battleship” it would of course been pretty funny, but then you might have justified an ADC. Regardless, we have more than enough ubertank ■■■■ out there.

And that ironically is your biggest flaw. You’ve given them literally every advantage, and no disadvantage. They have damage, they have utility, they have mobility (battleship but still, a LOT better than caps), they have tank. What do they not have?

18

And this is the way we want to keep it.

Besides, lets be real, you want this to work in high sec don’t you?

1 Like
19

so if i get this right:

  1. Titans will get overshadowed somehow despite the fact that the ship and the module will have certain limitations to not make it in par with the regular capital or covert module

  2. Blops will get into the dumpster because apparently, they cannot compete even when having more bridging capacity and being able to use a cloak without getting ■■■■■■ (much)

  3. Dictors and Hictors automatically useless because a battleship can project an instant cyno jammer, that alone overshadows any usefullness on having a warp disruption bubble somehow even when it makes the fleet stay on the grid and unable to jump reinforcements unless they move out of the field.

  4. a ship can only provide “support” in the form of links, logi or EWAR. otherwise they are obligued to be damage sponges or dps glass cannon as bridging the fleet or providing protection for a hotdrop doesnt apply as support.

OP updated with some changes to see if a concession can be reached.

20

Correct, and even with your amendments, it’s still going to overshadow Titans. There is literally zero good justification for what you’re asking for as a concept, all the amendments in the world won’t change the fact that the ask itself is too much.

Why would I risk 80m bombers, 350m cruisers, and 4 bil battleships when I can just bridge in 50 T1 destroyers? I won’t care if they respond, I’ll kill the target and then let them kill my fleet and still be insanely isk positive. That’ll be our ticket home, so I don’t even need to bridge them home again.

As I’ve said before, the cyno jammer isn’t the problem. I want something like that. The problem is the warp disruption bubble. These will be tankier than HICs. They’ll be more mobile than HICs and Dics on account of their jump drive. There’s very little reason to use either unless you’re planning on suicide dics. That said, the cyno jammer is very much a blops kind of thing, not a “traditional fleet” kind of thing.

You do realize what “support” means, right? Support doctrines are links, logi, ewar. “Logistical support” (bear with me - I’ve always hated that rep stuff is called logistics when actual logistics is the movement of stuff) fits, but it’s an off-grid capability which applies only to strategic aspects rather than tactical aspects. It’s a misnomer to call it a support craft. Point in case, we never call Titans support craft.