T3 subsystems market price and market raw material price

So as you all know since the changes to the t3’s the market has been confusing!?

Aight im gonna get right to the point, the most commonly used subsystems currently make some profit however some susbsystems are ISK sinks, which confuses me so much i cant even understand this man.

Let me go into detail for the Core subsystems. This is what you need to know production wise, all core subsystems require the same input of materials to produce(Current market value of roughly 28 mil isk,im not adding fuel cost for the engi complex).

This mean at the very least a subsystem like Legion Core - Dissolution Sequencer which is sold for 12 mil.

What i dont understand is why is this happening? who is producing this subsystem without making profit?
My justification for this… at least when the patch hit was that someone made a bad investment, but people are buying them and somebody must be producing them.

Could this be one of those guys who thinks wrecks i salvage are free, gas i harvest is free and just mindlessly produces t3 subsystems?

Help me makes sense of this.

More like, the person building them, is doing so at such a large scale, that it is still profitable at how many they are able to produce.
If probag wants to chime in here and explain further, that is up to him.

how exactly can it be profitable? someone still has to acquire the goods for production, meaning someone is making a loss.

unless you are saying he is also manufacturing a great deal of other goods and he is just not noticing the loss on these particular items?

He likely wants to make sure that nobody else competes and he further owns the market. :wink:

Your cost of goods buying the raw materials from the market today is not his cost of goods buying it from many sources for a considerable time. Also consider that they are producing in a structure specifically bonused for the highest efficiency and not building them in an NPC station. All of this factors into the cost.

right but as i mentioned cost is the same for all core subsystems, he would be making significantly more profit by just producing a Legion Core - Energy Parasitic Complex instead of Legion Core - Dissolution Sequencer, he could sell the Parasitic one instantly on the market without making a sell order and he would make above 100% profit, in relation to the other one.

The effort to change industry production lines at the scale at which they are building all the different subsystems far outweighs chasing profit on a single item which they likely will outstrip the demand of quickly.

they as in random manufacturers? Also still makes no sense since market value of the product is determined by its raw baseline components. And if they can somehow magically acquire the base components they would be better off selling them to the market directly (salvage or gas,or reactions rather than gas since its more efficient volume wise) and by doing that they wont outstrip the demand since ancient salvage and fullerenes are used for manufacturing all t3’s goods.

The underlying thread here is that the T3 market is mostly produced by one player. That is the probag mentioned in the first reply to you. He will very much bottom out the market at times to keep others from entering it or making profit for periods of time because his costs are rock bottom. Once the other manufacturers leave, he returns to profit taking.

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its not just one player, if it would be a smaller amount of players prices would be way higher.
also on some subsystems after the t3 change they have never been sold for a high enough of a price to generate profit.

edit: You are talking about Predatory pricing, but stats from the ingame market wouldnt allow for profit making.

edit: im not trying to be condescending im just trying to explain why it would make sense from a capitalistic perspective. You manufacture goods to get profits not to lose them.
Trying to pick peoples brains to see if theres an explanation im missing.

This is what i got so far:

  1. Mathematically illiterate manufacturers

  2. Hardcore roleplaying guys who want to fill the market???!!?

  3. Someone has so much ISK he just wants to mess with people for shits and giggles.


  1. Current production cost for core subsystems is around 23-24mil each for me.

  2. There was a T3 rebalance a while back. One of the things that happened during that rebalance, is that subs were converted into other subs. To use your example: Legion Core - Dissolution Sequencer. Most Legion Core subsystems were converted into Dissolution Sequencers. This created a massive oversupply of them.
    Additionally, people don’t like the Legion Dissolution Sequencer subsystem and don’t use it. This created a massive drop in demand. So everyone who had these subsystems before the patch tried to sell them, and the price dropped.
    To offer some contrast: there were some Tengu subs that similarly fell to ridiculously low prices post-patch, because of the massive oversupply. However, these subs were still good post-rebalance, and as such, they are now back to ~30mil or whatever.

I personally currently maintain buy orders for all these oversupplied subs. I buy them, reprocess them at 55%, and still make a profit.

For example someone produces ship + set of subsystems. In this case he is interested to sell all of it and thus can accept little loss in some subsystems if it helps to sell other goods.

There could be some producers with the “I mined the minerals therefore they are free” mentality as well.

  1. that is a really really good manufacturing price, i mostly buy everything at jita buy order value. im sitting at a 26.5 i guess i can shave off a few mill now that i can react gas easily with refineries.

  2. Someone made that point before, and under that scenario every t3 should have 3 subsystems that are overflooding the market, like loki is popular and its subs are good above profit level.
    However proteus has several slightly under profit margin.

reprocessing mhmmh not really even with strong percentage. not enough to profit.

Building T3 destroyers looks profitable at now.

Not everything, what is sold on market, is produced by sellers. Some stuff can be just looted, ask CODE. for more details…

Always keep an eye on the market and amend you build runs accordingly, build what sell, leave what doesn’t. It all goes in cycles anyway so patience is always a virtue too.

Lots of big manufacturers acquire their materials from buyback program, so they could possibly get the materials way cheaper than the market price (e.g. 80% Jita price)

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