Tag Pimping - the new invul steroid. Time for it to go

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
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Let’s face it: the biggest carebears in HiSec are tag-pimping gankers.

EvE has Sec Status mechanics built in. Every player chooses their own path: join a big alliance in Null, krab in JSpace, start a small industry corp in HS, or Pirate in HS to glut on those industry players. Of course, there’s also the “X marks the spot” - fish-in-a-barrel Abyssal ganks. Soft, really soft. Industry uses expensive ships to mine - exhumers, Orcas et al. Abyssal Runners use pimped Gila’s, Stormbringers, and HACs. These are all vulnerable to cheap T1 Dessies/BC’s - multibox F1 monks and the like.

Abyssal Runners don’t get an invul booster that protects them on exit. When found, it’s a 100% death guarantee. Miners and Haulers have no answer to swathes of cheap pigeons that insta-blap. These careers onboard these risks. Some HS gankers will even extort miners for “permits”. I can’t even begin to wrap my brain around that.

Yet - in all of this - HS gankers pimp tags like there’s no tomorrow. They don’t want retribution, they don’t want to be attacked by those in HS seeking vengeance or others having some anti-piracy fun. They have an exit clause - a game mechanic exploit. Concord is their saviour while killrights is not an answer. Undermining killrights is too easy - it’s self-solved or too expensive for others to bother. And, it’s a 1x permission - not a game loop.

Now given how tough some of these RP’ers want to be as famed Pirates of HS (such as the James 315 eternal nausea) - they all tag pimp. Why? Tough pirates should be proud of wearing a red-skull next to their names. After all, they keep telling everyone in HS that “roids” deserve protection, miners are worthless AFK parasites under their worthy bootheels. There’s even one with RP royalty status, but she tag pimps too. Being so invincibly tough, they need to tag-pimp for what reason?

Instead, Concord is their carer. HS Piracy comes with no risks - what a fabulous softy career. Sacrifice cheap pigeons to gain the big bling. I’d love stock markets to work the same way. My cents for the guaranteed big USD payouts.

Pirate tag-pimping is a cheap counter-measure that other career choices don’t get.

Sec Status is a game mechanic. As a HS pirate - working with this risk should come with the turf. Tag pimping needs to go! Let HS Pirates dock wherever, operate as they want to, but wear the red skull with pride.

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I agree with you — sec status is a game mechanic and so many careers miss out on it.

Therefore they should make it so:

  • having a 5.0 Sec status reduces bounty ticks, mining yield, and loot drop rate down to 1/8 (12.5%) of normal.
  • Security status of 0.0 gives 1/2 (50%) of normal mining yield, bounty ticks, loot drop rate
  • security status of -2.0 gives normal rate
  • security status of -5.0 and below (outlaw status) gives 2x bounty ticks, mining yield, and loot drop rate.

That was its like you said: balanced and all careers can now benefit from sec status mechanics. No risk no ISK.

  • if criminals gotta PvE to grind up their sec status then
  • PvE players should pirate down their sec status to get sweet returns

Therefore, no more carebears.

This also works in low sec, which you entirely ignored. Don’t worry, the math still checks out!

I like your idea!

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I feel like you only want to introduce funny tedium. I don’t need to shoot any player to get my sec status down to -5. All I need to do is tag a few structures in a low sec loop with a ceptor. So, what do you gain from this except for more bot ceptors flying around and more annoyed actual players having to engage in tedium instead of enjoyable gameplay?

Not to mention that you force people in high sec into areas of space where their preferred activity may not even be available, let alone usable in the first place. Missions send you all over the place, even if you accepted them in a 0.5 system. You couldn’t run these missions in the first place because most would send you to space you cannot access.

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Whoa, no way! It works just like OP‘s proposal! I don’t need to buy tags to get my sec status to zero. All I need to do is kill a few hundred clone soldier NPCs (they have higher than normal sec status gains) in a low sec loop in a T3D. So, what do we gain from this except more real player T3Ds flying around and more excited actual players having to engage in exciting belt ratting instead of their carebear ganking gameplay?

Not to mention that you force people in high sec into areas of space where their preferred activity may not even be available, let alone usable in the first place. Suicide ganking sends you all over the place, even if you scouted them in a 0.5 system. You couldn’t suicide gank in the first place because most -5 or less targets would then send you to space that doesn’t have CONCORD for you to suicide into — you’d have to do real PvP instead.

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You’re essentially forced to tag pimp if you spend time in hisec. The new no- dock/tether mechanics basically make it mandatory to keep your sec status at better than -2.0.

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Agreed, read my last paragraph, but it’s still a soft exit. My example comparison stands, what option does an Abyssal Runner have? Fish-in-a-barrel, X Marks the Spot (a come and get me buffet - help yourself). Can they apply a tag/booster fix against a guaranteed kill from some multiboxing drone or happy deckchair scrubs? Nope. You’re implying balance, obviously - I get it, but where’s theirs?

It’s time for HS piracy to become proper - and not some custard-tart activity for RP brigades.

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Fight, perhaps?

The gankers likely work together with multiple pilots to take down the abyssal runner. Their advantage is that they know where the abyssal runner is going to appear.

The abyssal runner could also work together with others. Their advantage is that they not only know where, but also when they will exit the trace.

Why not have a friend or alt keep an eye on activity near your trace and if gankers are waiting, surprise them with a few cloaky ships to kill them all together with CONCORD? Even one friend or alt with a well timed ECM burst on a throwaway frigate could help your expensive abyssal runner ship against gankers, I guess, especially when you are the one who knows the exact timing of a possible PvP encounter.

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Concord isn’t a factor any more. Drones and deckchair scrubs operate in 0.5/0.6 systems to get the juicy Abyssal loot. Chaotic and Cataclysmic filament Runners. 5 or 6 cheap Dessies have the Runner long popped before Concord has even farted. So you’re entirely dependent on the ECM boats being totally effective within a few seconds - mission impossible vs. Sebo ECCM scripts - and especially when some drone can easily shift to 8 or 9 Coercers too.

Your “fight” plan is absolutely ideal when Pirates don’t simply tag for Concord protection. Defenders attack Pirates, Pirates blap the prize smarter and faster. Each evolves. And you’re right - Runners can be used as bait vs. Pirates - but baiting can be counter baited when the expected defence shows up. A proper game loop - as it should be.

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To be honest, my experience with abyssal runner ganks is near zero. I only recall a time I tried to kill an abyssal Gila outside HS in a bunch of bombers when we happened to come across a trace, but those Gilas with their defences and afterburners are surprisingly tough to kill if you’re not prepared for it.

When scrolling through Coercer losses that were used to gank abyssal Gilas, I did not see any ECCM scripts or modules at all. They seem to prefer afterburners in combination of either webs or points, I assume to keep up with the fast afterburner Gilas and to keep them tackled. ECM must be happening not often enough for them to prepare for it, so you would have an element of surprise.

And yea, the bait can be counter baited. But rather than counter baiting bait, wouldn’t it make more sense for abyssal gankers that are ganking for profit to go for the easier targets, who do not bait their gankers?

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Let HS Pirates dock wherever, operate as they want to, but wear the red skull with pride.

As a pirate who operates in High-Security and Low-Security space i actually like this idea.

I was hyped for insurgencies but it turned out to be a really bad let down…
Copy-pasted old Faction Warfare that’s instead of 2vs2 now 1vs1vs2vs1vs1 and don’t offer anything actually awesome for someone who wants to actually be a Angel Cartel, Guristas or any pirate member in that matter. Something in the lines you said would be nice and stir up the pirate game a little.

If you would remove tags, i think that something needs to be added for the outlaws though.
Like make an actual extortion mechanic that quarantees the transaction or something.

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In case readers don’t know, Mary Forcades is Monte Franzese. So the double posting on alts just to say „+1“ is just the same guy.

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And? That’s a bit off topic isn’t it sir.
Plenty of people here postin with multiple accounts, this is nothing new.
Let me remove the other post, if it makes you feel better.