I guess the question is still how will it be different from an IT5 or similar ship? Currently, I can see:
Stronger tank
Can only haul assembled ships
Then you get the typical response to suggestions: “It’s too much work for what it adds to the game”. In general, that’s a kind of silly response. We want things added to the game and they will all require work.
In this specific case though, since you can carry ships in a general purpose hauler (and it’s rather unlikely to get ganked for carrying two repackaged cruisers, a few frigs and meta modules if actively piloting in high sec), the only advantage seems to be not having to waste rigs, which a fair few noob ship won’t have any ways. Is that really worth/requiring a new ship?
So I took some time to mull this over a bit, and I’m coming around to the idea.
It really depends on how much it could carry.
I can see a few roles other than just ferrying your stuff from place to place.
Could be used to deliver a fitted ship to a customer in places where you wouldn’t want to pilot a Bowhead. Just include the price of your micro-transport in the delivery collateral.
Could be used by small gangs to keep a different ship just off grid for cheap. No need to wait for the redock timer.
A pilot could use an alt to carry her combat ship while piloting her scanning ship. Or carry a micro fleet, so she’ll have the right ship for whatever her scanning finds.
Just a few ideas, but as mentioned earlier, the amount of space this ship would have is the key.
Personally, I don’t think it should be able to carry a Battle Cruiser sized ship. Keep it around 125K m3 if you want it to carry a Cruiser or reduce it if you want it to only carry Destroyers or smaller.
Not to mention a very cheap way for gankers to field never ending waves of catalysts.
We all know who will use a cheap, easy to train, t1 SMB ship the most… Highsec gankers.
And they will also kill these ships all over, because they are t1, therefor it doesnt have any tank and it will almost ALWAYS be carrying more then its worth. SImple math tells me, its profitable to gank it pretty much every time.
What we really need regarding indy ships, is a rewamp, so other factions then gallente figures out how to transport various items.
You seem to be one of them characters that needs to be spoon-fed and handed to. How about no?
I get that moving can be a hassle but everyone will do it at some point. If you think you should have it better than everyone else, you are mistaken. And if you cannot sell you stuff and buy it again at the new place, then bite the rusty nail and fly them yourself.
The Orca is a non-solution for a new player and also a non-solution for an experienced player who would want to move a small amount of cheap ships around. If you have read the thread before you post something like that, you might understand.
Also you’d notice, that the discussion faded out a couple of month ago. I guess for you, it’s never too late to post some generic and completely baseless insult.
You say that as if unnecessary timesink punishments like the unability to move a few cheap ships at once, would make EVE hard. It doesn’t. All it does is two things. For older players it encourages to leave cluttered assets behind everywhere and for newer players, Alphas or returning players without the ISK to afford such a pragmaticism, it encourages to waste their time with tedious tasks rather than playing the game. EVE is hard because of its emergent character and that’s how it should be.
How much money do you have? Cause if you’re worried about moving 2 cruisers 40 jumps in all likely hood you’re dirt poor.
You can just sell them where you are and rebuy them where you’re going or take a couple run bpc with you if none are there. It’s just simpler.
Don’t mean it to be rude but just sell or trash them. It’s not hard to get new stuff quickly.
Even in deep null at like -0.6 I could drop 10-20m on a cruiser and make my money back belt ratting in maybe 20 minutes and get some good experience at flying a cruiser against much bigger npcs
Sure. The financial aspect is mostly for new players. The entire idea would probably be most useful for players who are restricted to T1 industrials for the foreseeable future and want to change their base to explore different areas of New Eden, even different areas of Highsec.
If you can afford a specialist industrial which will NOT be the same price as the other T1’s given the proposed abilities, then you can afford any of the other methods proposed for moving.
This proposal simply does not address the needs of the claimed target group, and doesn’t apply to any of the other groups since the other options already exist for them. Therefore it serves no purpose at all.
ok, read the op, read some of the discussion, re-read the Op.
This is not needed.
Like others have said the easiest option is to repackage and move your frigs and dessies in a cheap t1 hauler.
Cruisers, probably fly those since they would be safer to do so already fitted and tanked, and have decent move speed.
Now, my opinion, everything you are asking about just requires a little bit of ‘Effort’ on the part of the player.(something i had a thread on once about cost)
That effort could be as simple as reaching out and talking to people, making friends, joining a corp and finding those already with abilities to do this hauling. It is a simple thing, because one thing EvE needs more than this ship idea proposal is more socialization an less being shy and afraid as a newbro.
Now if such a player is just purely anti-social and/or prefers playing MMO’s like no one else exists(WoW, SWTOR) then let him be, let him/her die in a fire, thats part of the learning progress in EvE…there is a wrong and right way of doing most things here. Being social like leads to the path of the right way, finding a mentor, and being part of something.
T;lDR: -1, no this ship has no place in game as proposed.
Of course it would have the same pricetag as other T1 haulers. Why would it be more expensive than a Miasmos or an Epithal, both of which more often than not carry cargo with higher value than a few T1 ships.
Yeah. Do that for 5 T1 Cruisers for a system just 15 Jumps away. Feel the pain and then explain to me how this is any good for the new player experience. Seriously, EVE being hard and complicated is good, but this is not complicated, this is just making people spend their precious time in the beginning with tedious tasks, when they want to go out there and explore the game.
You are right in the sense that there are alternatives to hauling your ships. Matter of fact is though, that there are only these alternatives and not a simple go-to solution which is new player friendly. Inb4 some bitter salt: new player friendly does not mean to spoon feed them anything, it means to not unneccessarily hinder them from getting into content.
It’s not the kind of effort, they can learn much from. I didn’t find your thread (feel free to link it), but in general it seems clear that almost everything in EVE requires some form of effort. It is something new players learn early on, by trying to make ISK, travelling around, learning all these things that can be learned and so on. Flying ships from A to B solely because there is no new-player friendly alternative, is teaching them that they have to spend hours or days to move their small amount of assets into a different region to try things out there. That’s boring and nothing else.
Sure, it can be like that and these things are good anyway. But it doesn’t very much apply to this discussion. No one likes hauling cheap ships around. If people do so to make new players happy, chapeau. Most corps do not offer this kind of service (just think about the options for trolling people into hauling some 50M in T1 ships for half the day - by someone who pretends to be a newbro). On a sidenote, this also requires a lot of trust. New players learn (they better do) early on, that it is adamant to choose your friends wisely. EVE encourages preying on the weak and there are enough people out there doing that.
Yes, yes, yes. Absolutetly so! How about we give new players the opportunity to spend more time with social interaction, by giving them a ship that helps them move their few things quickly around to make new friends in that other region? There is no social interaction while you warp from gate to gate.
I don’t know how you come up with such extreme examples from a proposal for a ship. But let me say this: I think new players who get active by themselves, no matter if some corp helps them out or not, have a better chance at making it in EVE. It doesn’t mean they are anti-social. Few corps exist, which are rather new player friendly and as far as I know most of them live in Nullsec. In Highsec you have a lot of big ego, who would like new flesh for their corps, but can’t really offer a social experience either. For some reason, don’t ask me why, most older players in highsec seem to see the need to be secluded in their little corporations, rather than joining ‘generic corpname 1’, ‘halfwit corpname 2’ and ‘whatever 3’ into one group, because they do exactly the same at exactly the same place. So, it’s more the older players issue of secluding themselves, not a problem of new players.
I think I moved to lowsec after two or three months of playing EVE, at which point I hauled most of my ships one after the other through highsec and then through low. It sucked because it cost me several days of doing nothing but that and I didn’t have the ISK to re-buy everything nor did the lowsec area have a market that offered anything consistently.
Remember when I said, EVE is a long game, earlier?
There is always something you don’t want to do but have to do. You claim to be playing for several years, so remember those same tasks BEFORE the Orca or the Bowheads came to New Eden. People still moved to where they wanted to go.
I still remember my first move from Caldari space to Amarr space which wasn’t very fun but we made it fun by flying an escort to our corp freighter. I may have overestimated the power of my Kestrel a bit but we didn’t run in any complications. Some of my stuff I just left where it was.
Over my time, I moved lots of times, none of those time it was very fun but I did it anyway. Sometimes I even got to fly some shiney corp mate’s boat through highsec, which was less un-fun to do.
Anyhow, even the not so fun things belong to EVE and in the long run, you get the idea of EVE being a long game.
My membership lapsed. I’m currently alpha and the only ship in my amarr hangar I can fly is a gnosis. It’s just… With all the money I have I don’t see any need to fit a ship where I am and feel the need to bring it with me. If I want a maller I can just buy 100 whereever I end up if I felt so inclined.
I spoke not to long ago to a new player trying to reach null and he had an iteron filled up with several ventures and frigates and a vexor that he wasn’t able to use yet just so he’d have it when he got there. I advised him against it or trying to move something like that cause they weren’t really worth the effort. He said he’d like to try anyway just for the fun of it and he waited until downtime and one jump into low he got hit right on the gate just like I warned him would likely happen and he lost it all.
Your ship wouldn’t have changed that. Anything your ship can do I can do the same with repackaged ships and a few fittings in a regular t1 industrial and as a more established player I’ll just buy whatever I want when I get where I’m going. Your idea doesn’t add anything new. It just changes repackaged ships into fit ships. And at the t1 cruiser or frigate level it’s not worth it to move them fit or at all.
Unless youre trying to hold onto killmarks I don’t see the need.
I’d recommend altering a t1 industrial to be faster or harder to catch or more resilient.
Like the current split between mining barges.
Instead of a fast and large t1. Why not a fast, large, and tanked t1 like a procurer that’s safer for young players to move stuff with. But it’s more an impractical mindset you want to protect rather than just teach someone to sell what they have and buy back somewhere else. No one can blow up isk in my wallet when I travel. It’s the safest medium to transport goods in.
Taking into the mind that rigs cost peanuts you could freely repack your beloved cruisers and frigs take all fittings all together with hulls and move in a single hauler.
Also if you didn’t pay attention apart from major trade hubs there are several trading network citadels seeded everywhere in known space. So you better grab a shuttle and move as fast as possible whenever you want with iskies in the pocket.
The longer you play the faster you understand that.
From my times in 0.0 and later in drone space b4 structure I learned to travel light. The last thing you want to do as a newer player is put all your goods in one easy to kill package. Easy to kill is relative but still killing 1 hauler is easier than killing all the fitted ships it contains. Lose lets say perhaps 10% on the ship your selling with fittings or possibly lose them all by trying to move them.
In the long run it becomes very clear that time investment for whatever you do, is a necessary part of the game. As a new player the entire thing with having to move ships 1 by 1 really felt like nothing but discouragement. The proposed hauler wouldn’t take away the feeling of accomplishment after you’ve moved stuff - on the contrary. It would speed things up a bit, but depending on specifics you might still need to move more than a few times. With EVEs Skill progression being based on subscription time, the absence of certain options for new players gives the impression to be some form of arbitrary wall that was build with the intent to show newer players the content that will be unlocked, once they’ve paid enough money in subscription time.
I think that’s why you rarely hear older players complain about effort they’ve put into the game, when mechanics change, but rather hear them talk about being long-term customers (often enough with the weird ‘threat’ to quit if CCP doesn’t do X or Y, lol). It shows that too much of the feeling of accomplishment in EVE is connected to staying around and sitting it out. While it may look like a semi-smart marketing move, I think it just puts a leash onto the new player experience and that can’t be good.
The Gnosis is a great ship, mind you
About the other things you’ve said: holding onto killmarks and holding on the ships you feel you’ve worked your ass off for or two emotional reasons why people might want to keep T1 ships rather than buying new ones. Maybe some people even take the story serious in some way and think about the crew on each ship Lack of ISK or lack of better solutions (next market being too far away from destination to make it a better option etc.) are other ones.
The new player you’ve hinted towards Null would have lost any kind of T1 ship on that gate and potentially even his capsule if he went naked. Wormholes are the best way to get to Null for new players.
You already have two major options for each race - the bulky one, with large cargo, long align time, no MWD, etc. and the one that warps 4.5 AU/s, can be fit for Cloak+MWD, less cargospace, but able to move faster. A general EHP buff to T1 industrials seems unreasonable, as it would influence too many things at once. Alas, you can fit some haulers for max tank, so they tank the alpha of a Tornado or two.
I generally agree with that, but if you look at the real situation in EVE, you have many areas in which there is no properly developed market and new players would have to sell their hard-earned stuff for way below Jita or build price, just to come to the next area in which it is the other way around for re-buying the stuff.
Everyone who wrote: “travel light”, I agree, that’s a good thing to learn. Unless you start developing several projects at once as a new player and don’t just follow the beaten path of joining some major large group to rat in VNIs.
As a newer player you shall not start multiple project at one time since you better to learn a lot prior to jump into specific areas. There is nothing wrong to join billboard and rat with VNI to build up a budget for diff projects you may run afterwards. You still have the JC option available. As soon as you get wallet grows constantly you start using haulers service and not worry about moving carp arround.
And please don’t ignore rest of the comments those are valuable ones from people who played longer than you and use current tools which are available and work perfectly well.
because it cost me several days of doing nothing but that and I didn’t have the ISK to re-buy everything nor did the lowsec area have a market that offered anything consistently.
Lack of ISK or lack of better solutions (next market being too far away from destination to make it a better option etc.) are other ones.