Temporary wardec immunity


(Dark Engraver) #1

We see all too often too much complaining about highsec wardecs and altho old players deserve to be included in this system and to fight or suffer loses I feel it is new players that seem to get beaten up the most in a time when they should learn the basics.
So my proposal is an account bound timer for new alpha or omega accounts which essentially prevents you from being flagged as a wartarget for a fixed number of days(maybe 2 weeks or 1 month up to dev decision).
The timer would start ticking down after the account was created you could be a member in a corporation with wars active but not directly engaged.You would go suspect if offering remote assistance to your corp,the wardecers would just show up as neutral and you could be concorded for attacking them.Once your account timer is out you’re free game as a target.This would give new characters a chance to learn the basics even witness a war without being a target and learn.
Note that I don’t feel the timer should be in any way long but it would offer new players some help without giving older players any.
If this can be exploited in some way feel free to point it out.


(Black Pedro) #2

What is the point?

Exploding ships is fun and a core element of the game. How is it better if you prevent new players from having fun? You won’t learn anything by sitting on the sidelines not being allowed to play. If you want to do that, tag along while in the NPC corp.

Players, both new and old, can already opt-out of wars by staying in the NPC corp. Maybe there should be alternatives for players who want the social element of corps but not wars, but isolating players from the core game based on nothing more than some visceral “think of the children” instinct seems counter-productive.


(Linus Gorp) #3

giphy

That’s a no in case it isn’t obvious.


(Merin Ryskin) #4

The point is so that newbies don’t get insta-killed before they have a chance to understand what is happening. NPC corps are not a solution because we want new players getting into a player corp and seeing the real game as soon as possible. That’s a level of engagement that isn’t going to be found in an NPC corp. Having temporary war immunity lets the newbie get involved with a corp, talk to people about how things work, and make some progress on learning the game rather than stumbling into a war and instantly dying.

The virtue of this solution, unlike most anti-war whines, is that it is useless for the sad PvE farmers that feel entitled to risk-free farming and demand changes to ensure 100% safety. By the time you have a character that can make any meaningful ISK your war immunity is over. And just to make extra sure of it you can have the war immunity end if you reach X SP (where X is the normal amount for a newbie) via skill injectors or more than a modest amount of ISK.

The only change I would make is to give an opt-out option so that newbies (or veteran players making new alts) can voluntarily join PvP. Perhaps have it have a time delay so you can’t use it to opt in/out in the middle of a fight, but players who want to PvP should not be locked out of it against their will.


(Do Little) #5

Mining and mission running during a highsec war is no more dangerous than mining and ratting in Nullsec. Safety requires situational awareness. You can see war targets the moment they arrive in system and have plenty of time to dockup. Corporations wanting to run mining fleets simply need scouts for early warning - don’t even need to worry about hot drops!

You do need to actually play the game and pay attention to what is going on around you. If you aren’t willing to do that - drop to an NPC corp for the week. If you’re in an NPC corp, wardecs aren’t an issue. If you’re in a player corp, the corp leadership should teach new players the basic skills needed to survive, and thrive in this game.


(Johnt Vaille) #6

Doesn’t help and doesn’t work.
This is half-measure that doesn’t solve a problem.
And also here it looks like joke and a lie: “hey we’ve changed wardec mechanics - be happy” [but in fact nothing really changed].


(Johnt Vaille) #7

New players are not reason here. Wardec is problem for all.

And actually new players are not the main aim. We should care about those who already choose this game and spent some time here.

Wardec is a problem also for old players.

So this is also a reason why temporary immunity not a good idea.


(Merin Ryskin) #8

Those are all nice things, for experienced players. This is about giving week-old newbies a chance to engage with player corps and learn the game mechanics without being insta-killed in a war they barely understand.


(Merin Ryskin) #9

No, wars are a solution for old players. They weed out the incompetent and lazy and evict them from EVE, or at least force them to hide in NPC corps like the pathetic losers that they are. The only problem with wars involving old players is that they don’t happen often enough, and entitled farmers feel like they are a temporary disruption to their RMT operations rather than the natural state of existence.


(Johnt Vaille) #11

This is another reason of why wardecs should be removed from EVE mechanics.

And this players of course are not incompetent and lazy we all know it. This is just you, who has no more arguments, and who is low-level.


(Black Pedro) #12

Seems pretty dubious. Corporations at war taking in new players should be able to educate, support and train them during a war. It is a great opportunity to learn some mechanics, and any corp worth its salt should be able to keep a new player in frigates forever. I don’t see how sitting on the sidelines apart from the war would help anything.

At best this would help a group of new players joining and forming a new corp without a clue about how this game works or what that means. I think it probably better to just give them a ‘playhouse’ corp with all the restriction and protections of the NPC corp to give them a space to get their feet wet and splash about in the shallow end of our shark tank, than to introduce some unneeded complexity to wars where some corp members are valid targets and some are not.

Sorry, this isn’t worth the dev time in my opinion.

-1


(Merin Ryskin) #13

What, so that lazy and incompetent farmers can have the risk-free RMT farming they feel entitled to?

And this players of course are not incompetent and lazy we all know it.

Of course they are. Wars are easily evaded, if that is your goal, and most of the people dying in them are just bad at EVE. It’s people who feel entitled to float around mindlessly in expensive ships, completely oblivious to their surroundings. Good players know how to use local, fly PvP ships, or even move their operations out to nullsec and dare the aggressor corp to follow them.

In fact, good PvE players celebrate the existence of wars, because anything that kills their lower-talent competition means better prices on the market for their own operations.


(Merin Ryskin) #14

Because most of these players don’t even know that there are sidelines. They join a corp having no idea what “war” means, and quite likely have their first awareness of the existence of a war in the form of someone far more experienced insta-killing their ship out of nowhere. Hell, most of these players are having enough problems trying to figure out which button turns their guns on. A temporary immunity period allows them to connect with the social aspect of player corps and start meeting fellow players without being insta-killed before they can be brought up to speed on what’s going on.


(Dark Engraver) #15

Indeed almost all new players haven’t a clue about the world around them what is happening or why something is happening.Let’s face it in the stage where you’re geting to know the basics perhaps it is best we temporarly offer the new players immunity.As for learning about wars you can learn alot from the sidelines and after immunity is over can get hands on experience if it seems fun.


(Dark Engraver) #16

I also liked the opt out option someone posted above,


(Dark Engraver) #17

Nope wardecs for older players need to remain precisely to enforce the nature of the game in highsec for those who strive to avoid conflict.


(Nisanthro) #18

The sooner they find out what war means the better. We don’t want them to think this game is something it is not, do we?

o/


(Daichi Yamato) #19

Social corps would solve this and more.

As for right now? New players shouldn’t be excluded from decs. They are a great opportunity under the right leadership.

Lets go in the other direction. You’re not allowed to run a corp until you demonstrate a level of competence. Let’s say if you can lead your corp through a wardec without completely failing you are then allowed to run a corp.

Oh wait…


(Daichi Yamato) #20

This is precisely what happened to me. Remember when it didn’t tell you that the corp you’re joining is already at war?

But i didn’t blame the game. Or the wardec. I blamed the idiot that accepted me, said absolutely nothing and was never logged in. I just left and kept looking.

The next loss on this char was another incoming wardec, but this time my corp organised a fleet, gave me a free ship and we went hunting. I got a kill out of it.

Both of these experiences involved wardecs and losing ships. Yet only one of them i consider to be a bad experience. The other is part of the reason I’ve played so long.

Ask yourself what the real difference is.


(system) #21

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