No. But I’m just saying multi boxers are a much bigger ore source than alphas mining barges would be. If you really don’t like more ore then ask CCP to nerf multiboxers.
If it’s not balanced then everybody would be doing one thing. We have a diversity of things people are doing right now.
I said “anything they want” not “everything they want”.
Not really. There’s the people who really like mining but can’t do it so they don’t get omega. There’s the people who start ratting but don’t like it that much so they don’t get omega.
Mineral supply is fine. We just had the nerf to it. You should be happy now. Also it should be easy to get ships, after all, “ships are ammo”. People aren’t gonna lose their ships in PVP if they’re very expensive.
They can manage ore income. They can reduce ore yield by 90%.
Yeah.
Because they want people to have fun with content.
Ok then. But it does the same thing as a sink does right? Decrease supply of isk?
No, a Sink consumes ISK, a Faucet grants it, and the ESS simply changes who it is granted to, if anyone. Stealing ISK from an ESS dies not ‘lose’ any ISK - between direct-to-player bounties, the main bank, and the reserve bank, 100% of the bounty value is made available to players to claim. The Reserve Bank is temporarily not accessible, as CCP is probably fine tune the key award system for them a bit (and build up some juicy targets for once those keys are available), but that still makes the ESS a Faucet mechanism and not a Sink.
ISK Sinks must consume ISK from player wallets, The ESS just changes who gets a portion of the ISK from the null-sec bounty Faucet. The ISK doesn’t belong to anyone until it is in a player wallet.
Players don’t want inflation that’s unsustainable or otherwise detrimental to the games economy.
You don’t even know what you’re saying here.
Prices and inflation are not the same thing.
No need. We can nerf ore DNA and keep all that lovely cash from multi-boxers.
Jobs done!
You’ve misunderstood. That has nothing to do with the risk/reward balance.
They are not comparing one activity against another per se. They are not transfixed on mining vs ratting like yourself. They are looking at all income activities across the entire game and seeing which ones pay too much or have too little risk.
Mining across the entire game was a serious problem. But also an issue is null ratting.
So CCP have changed all ore DNA and introduced the current ESS mechanics.
Well someone should tell them they can do it if they get omega.
Is a fallacy.
Players don’t pvp more when ships are cheaper. They don’t lose them less when they are expensive.
No it just is much harder to create a mineral sink compared to an isk sink.
You’ve got fuel which is a material sink, but it does nothing for the mineral market. You’ve got NPC buy orders, but that does nothing for the modules market, you’ve got LP store tags but that does nothing for the salvage market etc etc
Isk sinks are just easier. NPC sell orders, LP stores, trade and industry taxes, jump clones, repairs and all the others; all these collectively manage the inflation/deflation of isk and CCP can adjust anyone of them if they feel a need to step in.
This isn’t even nitpicking!
It’s important for understanding the nature of balance!
This isn’t a thing.
There’s “balanced” …
… there’s “appears to be balanced but is actually unbalanced” …
… and there’s “unbalanced”.
If you don’t believe it, try balancing a needle on the tip of another needle reaching over the edge of a table.
Stick the bottom needle to the table using duct tape.
You’ll notice that there is only an extremely small area on which the top needle is balanced …
… and if that’s off by just a tiny bit, the needle will eventually fall.
It can be off by such a tiny bit that it takes a bit time until the needle falls …
… but during this time the needle was in no way or form balanced.
It was unbalanced.
A balanced state does not change without outside influence …
… or until it runs out of energy to sustain its balance …
… which doesn’t happen when it’s all at rest anyway.
Assuming no outside forces and at full rest, a balanced state will always stay balanced.
An unbalanced state might appear to be balanced until it isn’t.
…
*walks off grumbling about the ■■■■■■■ lockdown in Austria.*
It does lose 30% of the isk in the bank. Check the recent devblog. Also it decreases incentives for people ratting because they can lose it, so people generally rat less, decreasing faucet.
Ok. True. I’ll just stick to “ESS decreases isk supply” because that’s definitely true.
Yeah. Thanks. That’s what I meant.
Also Eve’s economy is really interesting so it’ll be a shame if it collapses.
Inflation is defined as an increase in the average price level. For example, if I used to buy a Vexor at 10 mil isk and now it’s 15 mil isk there’s an inflation. The purchasing power of isk has decreased.
What’s ore DNA? Also, you’re not CCP. I’m looking at this from the point of us players and to Eve, not CCP’s wallets. But they’re not exactly conflicting either, as only happy players pay (like some pay when they are unsatisfied, but they should be mostly happy but unsatisfied sometimes, so they play to go that final step).
Ok. Players do that too. They tend to do the stuff that pays out more isk for less risk. So if it’s unbalanced all people would do the same thing. It’s still unbalanced in eve, but that’s because some people are so risk averse that they would sacrifice high amounts of isk just to get less risk, like highsec miners. That’s a bit of balance, because not everybody would do the same thing. The more people take an “optimal” thing to do the more unbalanced the game is.
That I agree with.
They know, but they’re not gonna get omega when they’re not happy with the game (because it blocks them behind mining barges, which they are entitled to).
I pvp more when ships are cheaper, I take more risks when MY ship is cheaper and get more fights.
These aren’t mineral sinks.
Sinking minerals is exactly as easy as sinking isk. You put NPC buy orders of minerals that are more expensive than the buy orders on the market, people sell minerals there, then you sink the isk back out through whatever methods you think is easy.
^^This is beautiful BTW
Read above.
“Players, especially Eve players tend to do the stuff that pays out more isk for less risk. So if it’s unbalanced all people would do the same thing. It’s still unbalanced in eve, but that’s because some people are so risk averse that they would sacrifice high amounts of isk just to get less risk, like highsec miners. That’s a bit of balance, because not everybody would do the same thing. The more people take an “optimal” thing to do the more unbalanced the game is.”
So if everything in eve is lowering in price, except minerals, is that inflation?
CCP have been calling the mineral content of ore ore DNA.
Its not just about balancing one activity against another. CCP have decided that the game as a whole is too rewarding and not enough risk. There are some problem areas more than others (like mining and null ratting) but if you read the dev blog CCP are talking about how the general risk/reward of the game as a whole is skewed too much toward reward and not enough toward risk.
You are not the player base as a whole.
When a null block needs to defend a system, they don’t think ‘well ships are too expensive’. When a ratter blings his ship he doesn’t think ‘this bling is too expensive’ before he gets ganked. Freighter pilots don’t think ‘freighters are too expensive today. i wont fly it anymore’.
There is no data that supports the argument that PvP happens more when ships are cheaper. PvP happens when there are conflict drivers and wars irrespective of prices.
They are material sinks. I was explaining how material sinks are much harder to manage than isk sinks.
■■■■■■■ hell!
Thats the LAST thing CCP want to do. That is anathema to the player driven market AND creates another isk faucet.
It would completely undermine eve’s economy. It would in fact become the joke of an economy that other games have.
Here’s a simple explanation on why Alpha’s will not get mining barges.
CCP introduced Alpha clones as a “free trial” alternative to the previous limited 15-day trial, only being able to play with a subscription afterwards.
As a free trial, the player can do many things in the game, but regarding income, they will soon come to realize there’s an “alpha ceiling”, no matter what they try to do.
There’s a fairly low isk/h ceiling for mining in a venture as an alpha, which is due to the very low attention gameplay needed for it, and negligible risk.
There’s a reasonable higher isk/h ceiling for an alpha running lvl3 combat missions, due to requiring more active gameplay, and having more risk involved.
There’s a fairly high isk/h ceiling for running abyssal sites as an alpha, but that’s due to the dynamic and second to second gameplay, with the huge risk involved.
Giving mining barges to alpha is basically doubling, or trippling their income, without doubling or trippling their effort or risk.
CCP doesn’t want that, especially when they are doing their best to adjust the risk/effort/reward for the entire ecosystem, across the board.
If an Alpha plays the game and has fun getting rich, they can look for other activities for making isk besides mining, as not even Omega characters are supposed to get rich by mining alone.
They can also just upgrade to Omega if they like mining so much, like buying a product after tasting a free sample, enjoying it, and wanting more.
Proposal: alphas may only gain barge access to the retriever.
Discuss while trying not to say “KABOOM” in your best pirate voice.
Implementation would be simple: alphas will only be allowed to train mining barge to level one, retriever will require only level one, and the other two will require level two.
That’s gonna make a lot of people happy, though some for only a short period of time. I say again, KABOOM!
Closed due to violation of forum rules by discussing RMT via the use of bots…
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