There will be no conflict. CCP (PA) will decide which customers want. 
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Hisec is already LOADS less dangerous in almost every way. There are ways in which Hisec is more dangerous than other areas of space, but for the most part it’s a cakewalk. More so now than ever in fact.
Actually there’s more evidence to support that players exposed to un-warranted PvP early tend to keep playing longer than those who don’t.
To be honest I don’t think you really want constructive rebuttals, since they’re all around you and you’ve chosen to ignore them.
If you want to be ‘free’, to hunt and PvP and do anything you like, something like 80% of EVE space is available for that. It’s called low sec, null sec, WH space, etc.
The problem with every MMO ever that has tried to mix some PvE with open PvP is that there is always a group of PvPers who pretty much only get off on, and are only capable of, hunting people who don’t want to PvP.
You don’t see these people racking up big kills in pure PvP areas. You see them again and again, killing newer players, smaller corps/guilds, people who are out in non-PvP builds doing non-PvP related tasks. They like to pretend they are bada5s PvP ‘purists’ but really they are the people who don’t give a damn about the long-term success of the game or of new player recruitment. As long as they can pretend every day that they are a deadly threat by killing essentially unarmed targets in unequal fights, they’re good. They will even argue that “killing off new players is good for the game. No, really, it is!”
EVE needs new players. EVE needs more players. EVE has the vast majority of its’ space as a “do anything you can manage to do” playground for PvPers. Well, real PvPers that is. The pretend ones still cry if they can’t PVP noobs in high sec.
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No. See, you don’t get to decide who plays in which corner of the sandbox and who gets what. This is where the conflicts start and where you then get told by others what to do, and if necessary at a ratio of 500 against 1. That’s where you fail to understand EVE and its 15 year history. You’re still only thinking on the level of other PvE games, which obviously come and go.
EVE also doesn’t need more players. It can have more players, which is different from saying it would need more players. Some fights in fact put the nodes into TiDi every time, which shows where the limit is. So the game has room for more, but it has not got unlimited space for new players and it’s not a necessity for it to have more.
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I do not understand this statement, it is akin to repeatedly driving to the public pool and jumping in when you…
- Are Hydrophobic
- Unable to swim
- Get really bad skin rashes from the chemicals.
… sure, there is a lifeguard on duty to pull you out… and you are miserable now… and then you do it again… why? There are plenty of other things to do.
Btw, Of all the targets I select for ganking or war, my favorites are the ones that spend most of their time in HS, in a PvP/FW corporation.
This is the joy of PvP, sometimes you are the former, sometimes the latter.
Going back onto topic directly, I am curious to see what the future development from CCP is in the Wardec area, hopefully they address the actual issues that cause the symptoms folk are discussing instead of [waves hand] … this… but I doubt it.
Now excuse me, I have some wars to plan.
While someone playing with just an Alpha account doesn’t bring in as much money to CCP as an Omega, they actually do bring in some and aren’t just leeches. The only reason I play Eve is because of the Alpha system. I can’t always afford $15 per month, however it’s annoying to simply get cut off when playing an MMO. With the Alpha system I sub when I can, and when I can’t I can play within the Alpha limitations. This ends up with me averaging to about a 50% Omega ratio. While that’s less money then if I was subbed all the time, it’s more then if I didn’t play Eve at all which would probably be the case without Alphas as I probably wouldn’t have tried Eve in the first place without them and even if I had probably wouldn’t have come back after my first hiatus of not being subbed. Also, even when an Alpha isn’t subbed, just by being in the game they provide content which encourages Omegas to remain subbed. So long as the number of Omegas doesn’t drop down so low the game is unsustainable Alphas are an overall benefit.
People seem to confuse this issue a lot. A mixed PVE/PVP game is not a PVP game. For instance, I personally have nothing against PvP. I play a number of games that are entirely and only PvP. I enjoy it because those games are constructed around PvP, and the PvP is fairly balanced and even.
I personally don’t PvP very much in EVE, because the PvP in EVE tends to be one-sided, it greatly favors those who have spent more time and money in the game (rather than simply on player skill, although skill is a big factor in EVE). It also favors “those who planned for and equipped for this specific fight, vs. those who were caught unaware.”
The issue is not about “But EVE is all about PvP, so why play it if you’re not a PvPer?”. Because EVE is not all about PvP, and never has been. PvP is a fairly central and broad component, and it’s always been a ‘mostly’ sandbox game, but it has also always had quite a lot of PvE content.
There is no good business reason to turn away potentially paying customers just because some people feel that they really, really need to be able to use newbies and easy targets to pump up their killboard stats.
Anyone who really wants to PvP has more opportunities for it in EVE than almost any other mixed PVE/PVP MMO. Yet there is, and always has been, the crowd that is only satisfied if they can hunt newbies and miners and haulers in high sec. They need high sec as a hunting ground because they don’t like the PvP in the 80% of EVE that is no-holds-barred PVP area.
There’s no other way to look at it. If you can PvP for real, there are a million places in EVE to do it. If you are only good against less skilled targets, who aren’t built for PVP, and aren’t looking for or ready for a fight… then you want PvP in high sec.
There are even those who say “Bu-bu-but EVE is a sandbox, you can’t stop me from playing my way”. Except if you want to PvP, no one is stopping you. Almost all of EVE is dedicated to it. The only people who want to stop anything are the weak PVPers who need high sec PvP with no limits. They are the ones saying “You can’t play the game your way, you have to play it my way, because I need you as a target. I can’t handle real targets in all the places where everyone is a target.”
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No. When you can play the game by being in an NPC corporation, but you choose to join a player corporation, then the others aren’t the ones who dictate your game-play. You simply have chosen to join their part of the game.
If you’re not willing to recognise and accept this, then you’ll always run into invisible boundaries and will wonder why it didn’t work out for you. It is indeed like jumping into a pool when you cannot swim.
But a solution is coming and we will hopefully get social corporations to finally put the confusion behind us.
Your principle attitudes could cost PA real money and subscribers, and will be easily ignored.
Guess how hundreds of other game makers feel like when I play EVE and none of their games?
If I was to care about only one of them then I’d stop caring about what I want from a game and I had to start caring for what they want from a game.
They will probably go with the paying customer and it looks that’s us not you.
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What kind of PVP are you talking about? Some forms are exclusive to highsec, some not, but killing noobs can be done everywhere. Are they off limit? for how long? who decides? How do you differenciate a noob from a fresh alt?
here’s the list of the starter systems. Do you want it to be expanded? What do you want?
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Let’s wait a little to see what new owners will tell about that
I’m asking him what he wants, not the owners or you, i already know.
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For me personally, I’m okay with the current setup. Anyone who’s played for a few years knows how to get around wardecs or other issues. Or simply minimizes their exposure so they aren’t putting billion-ISK targets up in space for people to shoot at.
Any comments I make are more from the perspective of “It would be nice if EVE was here for another 15 years”. There are obvious other issues (UI, overview, lag, TiDi etc), wardecs are just one of them.
I don’t have CCPs data so I can’t really judge what the most problematic area that ‘needs fixing’ is, and none of us want a typical CCP ‘we fixed it by breaking it 5x worse’ ham-handed solution.
As a first pass, on wardec issues only, I would probably suggest:
-Allow social corps who pay a 4% Tax to Concord for protection, and can’t be wardecced or declare wars
-Allow Merchant corps who pay a 6% tax to Concord if they want to put 1 structure in space, an additional 2% tax for every additional structure (or simply limit it to 1 or 2 structures).
-WarDec licensing would be renewed every 3 days, and would have a sliding scale based on how many WarDecs you have declared and how long they last. So having a few, short wars would be much more affordable than having many, longer wars.
For the health of the overall system, I would like find a way to add some sort of reward incentive in for smaller corps to survive/outlast a war with a larger corp, which would require some sort of actual participation/combat to occur. This would help turn wars from ‘something to log off and avoid until it peters out’ to ‘maybe it’s worth participating in’.
Anyways, I’m not the guy to ask about wardecs since I don’t really care much about them. Do something less crappy than what they have now, is pretty much all I’m saying.
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I like the idea of many types of corps
Also congrats on the constructive post, different from many here just saying “nhaaaaa… I want easy kills, HIGHsec is too safe”…
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Your view is as destructive when you generalise and say others would only want easy kills. They do not want only easy kills. They want for you to fit into the game, but also to be respectful, even to join them. It’s then most often those who edge on, mouth off or provoke out of fear, who end up getting face-stomped.
From a purely statistical point of view does this look like easy kills and an unfair kill ratio. But from a social view is this the working of peer pressure, where larger groups put pressure on you to fit in, and there it speaks for its effectiveness.
Or why would you accuse hundreds of players, who you’ve never actually met, of being selfish and wanting only easy kills? You don’t actually know them, but you want to blame them all for being selfish, accuse them for wanting only easy kills and make them feel guilty for it, and all because you don’t see how your approach to the social structures in-game starts the conflict in the first place.
Take for example a player who mouths off and insults, then gets wardecced and losses ships. He simply didn’t know what he was doing. Then take a player who mouths off and insults, but also runs away to avoid the war. He already knows what he is doing and knows the consequence of his actions.
I hope you can see how there is a clear difference between those who act dumb and stupid, and those who know what they’re doing, and for those who act dumb and stupid it backfires and ends up being a lesson. Of course they didn’t ask for this lesson or to be made to fit in, but nobody was also asking to be disrespected or accused by you.
Maybe when you keep this in mind will you start to understand that this isn’t as unfair and as mean is it may seem, but that there is much more to it than just kills and numbers. It is not only a sandbox filled with spaceships, but it’s filled with people, who have social interactions.
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You’ve answered your own question here. Nullsec alliances drop a citadel in NS, transfer to a shell corp and bam, now they are immune to wardecs. This is just as exploitable for NS as anyone else. CItadels aren’t linked to sov, so there is no downside whatsoever to putting them into shell corps. That this is not seen as a problem by CCP shows that they just don’t want wardecs to exist and I wouldn’t expect to see any replacement any time soon. Even if there were something in the pipeline, this is CCP time we’re talking about.
It was a broken system, but rather than developing a solution and then implementing, CCP have just destroyed it with no proposal on the table. It’s not plastering over the cracks so much as knocking the wall down without knowing how to build a new one and taking 3 years to work it out.
This is where I feel we differ slightly.
Grieifing player rackets such as code would not exist in any other game. They exist purely because of mechanic loopholes.
They are not interested in you fitting in, and I’m sorry but you’re not going to be able to justify that. These are people are absolutely destructive and abusive. I was hoping we wouldn’t get on to this topic because it’s slightly outside this scope, but these organisations have setup third party content to ridicule those they victimise, purely because the eve online forums do not permit it.
An individual that says 'You’re not good enough to play eve, gtfo" is not interested in anything but their own pleasure at the cost of other people, and I will be here and post all week until a certain small number of players stop pretending this is because ‘they want other people to fit in’.
You do not go setting up blogs to avoid eve online forum rules because you want people to fit in. You do it because there are a few individuals who derive pleasure from ‘tears’ where just killing someone isn’t enough, they absolutely ruin their night with eve mails and abusive local messages before they consider it ‘content’.
On top of everything that’s happened in eve, you might find yourself under considerable fire if you start suggesting that groups (if you can even call them that) hanging around in high-sec collecting ‘tears’ and dec-ing new corps are suddenly doing it for any social good.
And yes, they are probably in their hundreds. Do we know them personally? No, but what we do know is that their preferred playstyle is to not only play and attack others like any normal reasoning social being, but directly change their playstyle to upset and laugh at other players, then suggest they’re ‘Not good enough to play’.
Then define themselves as the ‘elite’ and socially try to blame everyone else. Nah, the sea’s of change are here because eve online has to support normal people who take longer than five minutes to grasp the incredibly complex world of eve online.
You really want to market Eve Online as a game ‘Where unless you’re okay with dying and being verbally harassed now and then, you should GTFO because you’re not good enough’.
No Mate, this place needs to stop being so toxic, and this is a move in the right direction.
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