The Completion of the Reclaiming

[Mitara_Newelle]

@Teinyhr

The Reclaiming merely paused

The Reclaiming never pauses, just the prominent methods used to carry it out shift from time to time.

[Aria_Jenneth]

@Teinyhr

I dont understand how it matters when it happens, when it is certain that it will happen. Do you think it wise to keep your hand in a kettle until the water boils? Or should you rather figure out how to turn off the heater, or remove the water, or the entire kettle, one way or another.

Is it certain, though? It’s in the nature of a debate that it flows both ways. Are you really saying our people are so weak that they’ll inevitably be converted to the last, sooner or later? While the Amarr remain just the same?

The Amarr aren’t something quite so simple as thermodynamics, Ms. Teinhyr. They’re people, like anyone else.

@Teinyhr

We’re not talking ambition, we’re talking about a “divine mission” to conquer everything these people see. These diversionary topics are getting tiresome and feel to me just intentional intellectual dishonesty. Like you know that the Empire is at its very roots sick, but you just won’t or can’t admit it.

I’m not sure how a “divine mission” is distinguishable from any other kind of ambition, particularly (let’s assume for argument’s sake) a driving one. Either is a pressing motive, lying behind, potentially, every action and word. It doesn’t seem to me as though there’s a functional difference there.

One favor I’ll ask, Ms. Teinyhr, is that you please be patient with my differences in perspective. It’s natural that we’ll see the Empire differently; I actually live in it, after all. It’s likely that I’m picking up a bunch of stuff without noticing, and it’s likely that some of that might distort my perspective a little.

I rarely lie or engage in trickery, though. After all, my long term self-development goal is to learn something that might be called “wisdom.” I won’t likely reach such a place by surrounding myself with illusions. After all, one of the strongest ways to act a part (or a lie, which in some way is the same thing) is to persuade yourself to believe it, too, at least partially. I don’t really need that many more veils of illusion to contend with.

So I’d be grateful if you could assume that, even if I say something that seems totally bizarre, that, at least in the moment, I sincerely mean what I said. That is, after all, usually the case. (And I usually flag it if it’s not. See, e.g., the “I want all the money!” thing above.)

And, the lady admiral is of course correct: I’m actually a target for the Reclaiming in its current form, myself. A somewhat difficult one, since I have an existing, fully-developed spiritual tradition of my own: back home I’d be from my people’s clerical ruling class. I don’t regard myself as anything like a victim, though; rather, I’m engaged in an extended conversation with the various Amarr around me. I’m aware that if they become convinced that persuasion will never convert me, other methods could be tried (Sinjin Mokk claimed they’d tip me into a penitence pit and that would be that) (I’m really curious what those are, but still can’t get a straight or consistent answer outside of the implicit one of “scary”), but even with the practical and legal problems of doing such things to a capsuleer set aside that seems unlikely considering the potential consequences of such acts for dealing with others not yet Reclaimed.

To my eye, the Empire isn’t sick; it’s actually in the process of changing from something highly aggressive and violent into something … much less so. So I guess if you’d say the “sickness” was the militant expansionism that brought the “Day of Darkness,” I’d say the fever has broken and it’s on the mend, and has been for the last century or so-- though still a little feverish and capable of relapse. Even when fully recovered (or, rather, adjusted) it’s likely to have a penchant for going around and trying to persuade people to look at things a certain way, but that’s not such a bad thing really.

And even if the whole world did at some point get converted and gobbled up by the Empire, it seems like there are worse ways humanity has lived. And some it still does. Are we really all expecting our peoples to just kind of keep cruising along just the way they are, unchanging? (Yes, that’s pretty much the Caldari ideal, actually, but it’s led to some kind of unsettling patterns itself-- sickness, I’d even say.)

[Deitra_Vess]

@Aria_Jenneth

Necessary? Maybe. Sure, I guess. Keeping in mind that Templis Dragonaurs would definitely and proudly describe themselves that way before going and pushing around some half-blood like me, or, you know, letting the sea into an underwater city or starting an insurrection against the State because they don’t want to have any filthy war hero Intaki living near them.

Some folk like that might be necessary. Some just make things worse.

Necessary, yes but with the proper balances to them not as bad as them not being there. I think its quite obvious that such people should not solely be in charge of diplomacy, and they probably could do with some form of checks to ensure they don’t over power the other side of things. Natural order for lack of better words.

@Aria_Jenneth

Ms. Vess, hearing you say this worries me a lot. I joined PY-RE for a similar reason (less sophisticated, though, maybe): to prove my strength, to myself among others. It turned out I was a reasonably efficient killer (yay?) but …

… it kind of chewed bits out of my soul.

Of course, the damage wasn’t really very visible to me until I went and visited a place with a hugely different outlook on the value of life, but, I can’t at all say that it wasn’t real. It made me sick. Even now, how much has grown back, and how much is me just getting accustomed to being as damaged a person as I am?

It’d make me so sad to see that same thing happen to someone whose thoughtfulness and perception on, even, like, moral issues I kind of admire. Maybe you’re better armored, I guess. But I’m not sure anymore that it’s a good path to take, if you still have much “self” to lose.

With respect, I’m not damaged. I do not require anyone to help me or to hold my hand through anything, as I can’t remember a time in my life where help was really available. So I can rely on myself and those who rely on me only. Its not losing myself, only gaining the ability to use myself to my full abilities when necessary.

You would think nothing to come to the aid of Luna, right? Its duty. Shouldn’t be too hard to understand that part of yourself needs reinforcement. As far as an honest self assessment on myself, I’m sorely lacking in the ability to simply turn off my intuition and do what needs to be done. Your only limitation on your abilities is your own benchmarks you set yourself. I’m not really content with my own.

[Aria_Jenneth]

@Deitra_Vess

Necessary, yes but with the proper balances to them not as bad as them not being there. I think its quite obvious that such people should not solely be in charge of diplomacy, and they probably could do with some form of checks to ensure they don’t over power the other side of things. Natural order for lack of better words.

Hm. Well … that might be true, but it seems like there are a lot of ways for a person to become unbalanced. An unbalanced person might be useful in certain circumstances, but it’s not clear to me that a balanced person with a clear mind and strong sense of purpose couldn’t do at least as well. Or even way, way better.

I think, really, I’d rather most wounded/unbalanced people found their balance again than that utility was found for their damage. I’m not big into describing people as “demons” or something-- that was a little too much my predecessor’s thing-- but it doesn’t seem to me like one can really serve a people or cause properly without a clear mind.

That said …

@Deitra_Vess

With respect, I’m not damaged. I do not require anyone to help me or to hold my hand through anything, as I can’t remember a time in my life where help was really available.

I apologize. The sound of it … it just sounded distressingly familiar, is all. In the end, though, it’s none of my affair.

Please forgive my presumption.

[Deitra_Vess]

No need to be forgiven. I just feel I need to refresh my abilities to lead and make decisions without my conscience weighing in constantly. Obviously combat training is a major bonus, its helping a cause I do actually respect, and gives me a new outlook to, well in spite of my first point there, weigh on. Everything and everyone has some purpose, its nice at times to try and figure it out for sure, ya know?

[Teinyhr]

@Aria_Jenneth

Is it certain, though? It’s in the nature of a debate that it flows both ways. Are you really saying our people are so weak that they’ll inevitably be converted to the last, sooner or later? While the Amarr remain just the same?

I’m saying that those who will not convert will be worked to death. Yes, it is certain. Amarrian history has actual records about this, how they almost worked the Ealur to death at first. And who knows how many other societies they crushed while spreading from their home planet but didn’t find worth mentioning.

@Aria_Jenneth

The Amarr aren’t something quite so simple as thermodynamics, Ms. Teinhyr. They’re people, like anyone else.

They’re people who wish harm to my people. Who have harmed my people, and many others in ways that can nary be forgiven, but perhaps, if they’d even ask for forgiveness and actually did something to earn it. So far I have not heard of any considerable movements inside the Empire that demand equal rights for all its citizens. Given the Empire is a religious dictatorship with thought policing thoroughly integrated into their very culture, such a movement is highly unlikely, maybe not impossible, to ever happen.

@Aria_Jenneth

I’m not sure how a “divine mission” is distinguishable from any other kind of ambition, particularly (let’s assume for argument’s sake) a driving one. Either is a pressing motive, lying behind, potentially, every action and word. It doesn’t seem to me as though there’s a functional difference there.

A divine mission is the requirement of your chosen deity that you do this thing or else. It is very clearly different from ambition. Ambition is born from oneself, a divine mission is an order.

@Aria_Jenneth

One favor I’ll ask, Ms. Teinyhr, is that you please be patient with my differences in perspective.

Oh you wouldn’t believe the restraint I’m practicising right now.

@Aria_Jenneth

To my eye, the Empire isn’t sick; it’s actually in the process of changing from something highly aggressive and violent into something … much less so. So I guess if you’d say the “sickness” was the militant expansionism that brought the “Day of Darkness,” I’d say the fever has broken and it’s on the mend, and has been for the last century or so-- though still a little feverish and capable of relapse. Even when fully recovered (or, rather, adjusted) it’s likely to have a penchant for going around and trying to persuade people to look at things a certain way, but that’s not such a bad thing really.

And HOW exactly you come to this conclusion. A millennia long history of conquest, most of it quite bloody, vs. a little over a century of almost-peace. You do know that Amarr have waged proxy war against the Republic through the Ammatar Mandate the entire time, right?

@Aria_Jenneth

And even if the whole world did at some point get converted and gobbled up by the Empire, it seems like there are worse ways humanity has lived.

Certainly. Yet a theistic monoculture that literally oils its treads with the suffering of others is a vision of the future I am actively trying to avoid.

[Mizhara_Del_thul]

@Aria_Jenneth

Try again. Or, better, don’t.

It’s adorable how you instantly devolve into childish “no u” whenever you run out of arguments.

[Aria_Jenneth]

… hm. I’d invite you to spend a season here if I thought you’d accept. … And if I had the authority to do such a thing, and if it probably would actually produce at all the kind of experience I’m thinking of, actually, so … uh. Never mind.

I guess, let’s just say the Empire looks a little different from this angle: strikingly complex and diverse for a monoculture (WAY more diverse than the State!). I meet people of varying ranks with different opinions on all kinds of stuff, you probably literally wouldn’t believe how often. Probably some of that is “capsuleer culture,” but … not all. And of course it’s the nobles who express what might be called eccentric opinions the most freely, and even there it’s usually an opinion that is either actually or nearly backed by their own liege lords.

Most of the crippling ills you’d expect to come out of a society like this, the Amarr have some kind of answer for. Political monoculture: competing, diverse Great Houses. Abuse of power: Speakers of Truth. Inflexible dogma: the Theology Council and a gradually-shifting Scripture. And so on.

Depending on who you ask, either Empress Catiz I represents a major step for non-True Amarr or else the claim that it’s a major step is a vile slander. Hee. Either way, history marches on.

The Ni-Kunni have some of the most amazing dishes! (I really like spiced beetles! The textures involved~!) Looking at the way Ms. Qerl talks about certain foods it seems like I really need to find an opportunity to visit a Khanid (ethnic, not House) community or three. And then you’ve got all the interplanetary and regional differences.

It’s not as diverse as the Federation, and I’m not sure anybody is. And it’s got misery going on for sure, probably more than I’ve seen; probably more than I could see if I spent a lifetime wandering the worst bits. Lord Consort Newelle’s feeling is, “We’re working on it.” (Slightly paraphrased-- he was talking directly about slavery.) And it does seem like they are.

Is it enough? I guess time’ll tell.

Something that does make me really uncomfortable is how opulent some of the Imperial stuff gets-- it feels a little self-congratulatory, or maybe like it’s trying to make the whole thing seem as grand and purposeful and, well, glorious as possible. Capsuleers in general get up to some of the same stuff, but … I admit I like SFRIM’s chapel way better than some of the grand cathedrals.

Humility’s a good look on the Amarr. Gilded halls … maybe not so much.

[Samira_Kernher]

@Aria_Jenneth

Most of the crippling ills you’d expect to come out of a society like this, the Amarr have some kind of answer for. Political monoculture: competing, diverse Great Houses. Abuse of power: Speakers of Truth. Inflexible dogma: the Theology Council and a gradually-shifting Scripture. And so on.

The Speakers of Truth almost never act. They’re an educational order first and foremost. The Theology Council and superior lords are the ones whose jobs it is to handle abuses of power.

… but they, like the Speakers, also only act in certain situations.

And do keep in mind what point two means in relation to point three.

[Aria_Jenneth]

Well-- that’s all true, Samira, but it does seem like it’s worked well enough to keep the Empire going pretty steadily for century after century, albeit with some recent shocks (Reclaiming, meet Jove).

And I don’t blame you at all if you want to fix a bunch of stuff. I’m a little curious to see how you’ll want to go about it!

[Arrendis]

@Mitara_Newelle

The Reclaiming never pauses, just the prominent methods used to carry it out shift from time to time.

They haven’t even shifted, in truth… the Imperial Navy just likes to claim they have.

@Aria_Jenneth

I actually live in it, after all. It’s likely that I’m picking up a bunch of stuff without noticing, and it’s likely that some of that might distort my perspective a little.

@Aria_Jenneth

I rarely lie or engage in trickery, though.

Aria, I’d just like you to ask to consider these two statements together. If you’re picking things up that are distorting your perspective, then you’re engaging in deceiving yourself. And if you’re seeking wisdom, well, as you say, you won’t get it by deceiving yourself.

You likely do mean what you say… but that doesn’t mean you aren’t first succeeding in convincing yourself that what you say is true, even if a more objective version of yourself would recognize that it’s not.

You say the Empire is on the mend because they’re not being so aggressive and militant right now. I say any ambush predator isn’t sick when it’s attacking, and it isn’t ‘better’ when it’s stalking through the tall grass. It’s a predator, in both circumstances, and letting the prey think it is ‘safe’ is part and parcel of the process of hunting.

What you see as wellness, I see as deception, because the eventual result is inevitably a return to violence. Eventually, non-violent means will be exhausted. And the mandate will remain. When the options are violence or failure… do you really expect them to choose failure?

The Amarr Empire is a predator. Right now, it is not striking. That does not mean it is not looking for an easy kill, or that it will not take that kill when it presents itself.

[Vykiomi_Kezak-Akarin]

@Deitra_Vess

So you have records of us from before you invaded saved? Cause I clearly remember our monuments and such being destroyed… Then again that history would be inconvenient.

Data on barbarian societies garnered from Imperial Navy Exploration Corps and other agencies are usually held in custody by the Ministry of Assessment in its archives. An understanding of barbarian societies is required to facilitate and expedite a future Reclaiming. The first slaves taken are almost always for the express purpose of information gathering and debriefing. An example of how this expedites the Reclaiming would be in how the Empire already knew enough of Minmatar inter-Tribal politics to know that it would be the Nefantar who were most likely to hear the voice of God and act as a fifth column, in addition to targeting in the first strike of the Crusade the Matari political and military leadership, command, and greatest population centres while bypassing strongpoints – what you now call the “Day of Darkness”.

As a barbarian people are initially pacified further information and data on their society is gathered in the service of bringing them closer to God, because it is useful. For the Minmatar, knowing the nature of your of clan and Tribal traditions would be required for Holders to know, all the better to disabuse your people of falsehood. It is not that the Empire does not know your people in exquisite detail – indeed, it likely knows the Minmatar better than the ersatz culture and cheap facsimile who use that name today for their ‘Republic’ – but rather, it has no interest in sharing what it knows insofar as it would only further promulgate the heathen’s descent into barbarism.

[Deitra_Vess]

Well that was not the answer I was expecting…

[Aria_Jenneth]

@Arrendis

Aria, I’d just like you to ask to consider these two statements together. If you’re picking things up that are distorting your perspective, then you’re engaging in deceiving yourself . And if you’re seeking wisdom, well, as you say, you won’t get it by deceiving yourself.

You likely do mean what you say… but that doesn’t mean you aren’t first succeeding in convincing yourself that what you say is true, even if a more objective version of yourself would recognize that it’s not.

…

What you see as wellness, I see as deception, because the eventual result is inevitably a return to violence. Eventually, non-violent means will be exhausted. And the mandate will remain. When the options are violence or failure… do you really expect them to choose failure?

Sure, but, that applies to you, too, you know?

In a lot of ways you and I don’t think all that differently, Arrendis. I’ll concede that my vision might be a little clouded, but, even back at the start when I was first visiting the Empire I don’t think I’d have agreed with your overall views (though my predecessor might have). That’s because you talk about this stuff like it’s inevitable, like there’s truly no other way … and I think you’re fooling yourself.

We’re not talking about something simple here; we’re talking about something profoundly complicated: not even just a people, but several. And you want me to believe that their future actions are inevitable? Like people are simple and systems theory doesn’t apply or isn’t a thing, just because it’s a rule in their faith that they’re supposed to try to spread it?

It doesn’t make sense!

A few centuries ago nobody would have bothered trying to persuade someone like me! There was a tidy system: snap on a collar and go from there! Now? … Now I’ve been here for years, safe and free. Sometimes people ask me about my beliefs and about converting, but almost every one of them accepts the honest answer: The gates of Paradise open but once, so I won’t until I’m ready, and I’m not ready.

I might never be. But if I convert too soon-- if I lie to myself, and to them, and to God, about what I believe-- I’ll be condemning myself completely in their eyes. So I have the time I need.

Does that mean all’s good? Nope. It means there’s been change, here, real, important, profound change. Things are shifting, and will shift further.

It seems to me that the Matari outlook on the Amarr is tainted by anger over past (and to some degree present) harms and fear of potential future ones, that hate is the natural result, and that it feels good to hate. That you don’t want to see the changes as real because then maybe you’d start feeling bad about doing what you see as justice.

That you won’t seriously consider the possibilities, because righteous hate feels too nice for you to want to trade it in for hope.

That your eyes are clouded. That even if there’s a veil of fog across mine, that there’s one across yours as well.

I’m a determinist; I don’t believe in free will, but I know humans are more complicated than I or probably anyone can predict with certainty. There’s no such thing as inevitability in human affairs, so don’t talk like there’s nothing to be done but gird for mass slaughter and wade cheerfully in when and if it becomes convenient, Arrendis.

If you’re walking down that path, it’s because, between anger, fear, and the resulting hate, deep in your heart it’s what you want to see. It’s understandable, a very human thing. But you, too, approach this with clouded eyes.

[Deitra_Vess]

I won’t tell you what is best (pretty sure my feelings are known but I’ll at least still try and be unbiased on this), but if I may ask a favor.

Ask more questions from your hosts, don’t accept any answers until you have no follow up questions and don’t spare their feelings if the question is possibly offensive. A true friend would not take offense from an ignorant friend asking to know more. I’m not saying badger them needlessly, but do remember that with all the noise surrounding your new chosen home there probably is a reason people are vocal and its highly unlikely its source is just people with an axe to grind. If they truly have changed you will find no questions they take offense to or have a problem answering. If they were dedicated to this change you see they would be happy to clear the air on any questions you or anyone may have.

Maybe they have changed but not all change is inherently good or bad, there are shades of gray. Sometimes the easiest looking path has more pitfalls than the treacherous one. The most vicious predator hides in plain sight.

[Melisma_Ramijozana]

@Aria_Jenneth

It seems to me that the Matari outlook on the Amarr is tainted by anger over past (and to some degree present) harms and fear of potential future ones, that hate is the natural result, and that it feels good to hate . That you don’t want to see the changes as real because then maybe you’d start feeling bad about doing what you see as justice.

Well, this is a damning comment if ever there was one.

I don’t even know you, but here alone I’ve learned several things:

1. You don’t care about the Matari point of view. If you did, you wouldn’t say something like ‘and to some degree present.’ Billions of our brothers and sisters remain enslaved by the Amarr, suffering and in many cases intentionally made ill, and you think that this is only a harm ‘to some degree’?! The inability to accept the facts of what the Amarr did to us, and continue to do to our people, is a cornerstone of Amarrian politics and psychology, and while you think you are doing us some sort of favor by being open-minded, you are already using their very language.

2. You think that we hate the Amarr because ‘it feels good.’ Perhaps a few of us do. Perhaps even some of us who have already engaged in this conversation. But your comment is an attempt to reflect all of Matari culture, and in any broad sense, we don’t hate the Amarr because we like it. We hate them because they destroyed us and kidnapped billions of our people, erasing entire tribes. But apparently ‘Matari like to hate’ is a more justifiable reason to you than ‘Matari have reasons to hate.’

3. Your phrasing with ‘that you don’t want to see the changes as real’ lays bare your own belief not only that changes have happened in Amarr, but that the Matari refusal to accept these ‘changes’ is based in our own psychology… rather than the fact that we have encountered this very situation countless times before and have been proven right in our wariness.

Now, what is it that has changed? Has the Empress made good on her words about ending the time of shackles, or whatever trite expression she used? Have Amarrian scientists given us any assistance in developing a stable and reliable version of Vitoc? Has the empire given back any of what they stole from us, apologized to us, or attempted to make amends in any way?

They have not. The ‘changes’ you think you see are mirages, meant to lull the unwary into complacency. As Matari, we know better. You may have been ensnared by these false promises, but we will not be. And yet, I promise you, when I do see real, concrete changes like the ones I just mentioned coming to pass, I will then view the Amarr with a far more open mind and with less trepidation.

If you want proof that your point of view is the wrong one, look no further than the language used in this very conversation to refer to Matari. ‘Heathens’ and ‘barbarians,’ simply because we live different and appreciate different things than Amarr. Why, just a few responses ago one man consistently referred to us as ‘barbarian societies,’ refusing us artifacts of our stolen heritage. This is the side, the home you have chosen.

I’ve written more than I thought I would, and I’m unlikely to respond further, because you are a lost cause. You say you are not ready to convert, but you are already one with the Amarr, so why not adopt their god too? There is no saving you or convincing you otherwise at this juncture, so why wait?

It’s clear that you already have a solid idea of who Matari are, and you are unwilling to consider otherwise, that maybe your point of view has holes or maybe you judge us with too broad strokes… just like almost all Amarr.

No, you are the one with clouded vision. I write this not in hopes of convincing you that the Matari are right, because you’ve clearly decided otherwise, but as one small step to helping you observe your own self.

[Mizhara_Del_thul]

@Aria_Jenneth

just because it’s a rule in their faith that they’re supposed to try to spread it?

It doesn’t make sense!

That’s because you don’t understand the minds of the faithful. This isn’t a “rule”. It’s a core part of their identity, and whenever core values or identity features are even questioned, it triggers fight or flight in people. This is why you find bigot politicians with dicks in their mouths, fervently denouncing such things and even meaning it. The Reclaiming is such an identity feature, core to everything that they are. It’s not a ‘rule’. It’s them.

And you frankly do them a severe disservice by not appreciating what it is to them. Devaluing it like you’re doing is more disrespectful of their society than I am.

[Aria_Jenneth]

@Deitra_Vess

Ask more questions from your hosts, don’t accept any answers until you have no follow up questions and don’t spare their feelings if the question is possibly offensive.

Hee. I do, sometimes. Though, actually, Ms. Vess, it’s really more like: I don’t close my eyes. I’m aware of the dark, here-- maybe not the fullest extent of it in a lot of places, but I know it’s there.

What’s been most revealing, actually, has been watching the Amarr learn it alongside me. You know we did a lot of work on those unsanctioned slave-holding sites, right? The Amarr took to it with maybe a little less glee than I did, but they’ve been saying kind of forever that illegal slavers should be punished, and so on. They had a chance to put their lasers where their mouths are, and they took it.

See, if I’m sheltered from the dark to some degree it seems like a lot of the Amarr are, too-- they don’t recognize the worst abuses because they haven’t seen and aren’t encouraged to go looking. But that operation … over and over, I heard people remarking with a frown about how many of these “unsanctioned” sites there were. They were disturbed. With so many illegal slave sites, either the rot was worryingly widespread, or …

Well, that didn’t bare thinking about really. But I could see them thinking about it anyway. They couldn’t not think about it.

Being from the State, I tend to think of “peoples” and so on like they were single coherent entities more often than maybe I should (you’d think I’d know better being as much an individual outlying case as I am). Some of that crept through when I was addressing Arrendis just now (Ms. Ramijozana called me on it). But, actually, I think “a people” isn’t maybe such a totally coherent thing? I mean, if people change the way they think … doesn’t that at least start to change the group they’re in, as well?

It is true that I might have gotten comfortable enough to have stopped asking bothersome questions, though.

Hm.

[Deitra_Vess]

What they did with the unsanctioned sites was admirable. I don’t believe they do get enough credit honestly, nor with other events such as Nauplius’ towers ect. Maybe they weren’t conducted in the most ideal ways that many, myself included would want but it does seem to be ignored that they showed up, they actively responded, and things got done. Those are facts that can not be disputed. Realistically, they should get more credit than what has been given.

One point I think I should touch upon as our initial dialogue here stems from it is the words @Melisma_Ramijozana spoke.

one example in particular:

@Melisma_Ramijozana

If you want proof that your point of view is the wrong one, look no further than the language used in this very conversation to refer to Matari. ‘Heathens’ and ‘barbarians,’ simply because we live different and appreciate different things than Amarr. Why, just a few responses ago one man consistently referred to us as ‘barbarian societies,’ refusing us artifacts of our stolen heritage. This is the side, the home you have chosen.

I would hope the fact that your Empress’ Coronation was attended by Sanmatar Shakor would at least be a footnote to the up and coming Amarr capsuleers that we are not the “barbarians” they seem to believe we in the Republic are (Shakor was invited after all, attended, and acted nobly from all accounts). Certainly we’ve said our fair share of insults on our side, myself included (though I’ve always referred to the Amarrian religious zealot front as Slaver hounds for their tenacity more than anything else). Does this easily overlooked slight against us not stand out after its been pointed out? I do find it truly disgusting that our republic can take strides much like the late Empress could with the emancipation declaration years ago and nobody can see past, what? 10 years ago? Both sides. I know its an awkward question to ask in general, but is that even a noted thing in your Amarrian circles? That that is something?

Given the rather splintered nature of our Republic I can somewhat understand the varying opinions. For a people who at least in theory follow the same beliefs and such, supposedly your empress speaks your gods word, your gods word being what you as an empire hold as truth. Yet this? Not to criticize but this truly has me perplexed.

To touch upon what @Mizhara_Del_thul said, she isn’t exactly wrong. From what little I know of the scriptures, or at the very least what I hear from the Slaver Hounds and the more respectable Amarr (in my eyes at least) when they quote it as justification for, well, everything the rule is defined by its part as a core part of their identity. A simple example of what I mean is “Our people naturally are alive, there for murder is illegal.” It is a rule. It is a part of their identity. It can be and it is both. I remember being told by one of the more prominent Amarr who post here that we are all slaves, some are just tasked with enslaving others. I don’t believe I got the quote perfect but it sums it up I believe. Can you really say that someone who adamantly believes this has the reclaiming as merely a rule? It quite literally says the opposite.

[Arrendis]

@Aria_Jenneth

That’s because you talk about this stuff like it’s inevitable, like there’s truly no other way … and I think you’re fooling yourself.

Well, Aria, let’s go down by the numbers:
With a simple yes or no, do you think that the Amarr will abandon their Divine Mandate?