I don’t know if it’s that big a deal. I have a 8-9 million tristan fit and a 40m Vexor fit I use with my FW alt. With basic VNI ratting in Providence… I make enough to replace the Vexor in 40 minutes and enugh to buy two tristans in 20 minutes (using one account).
Meanwhile I make over a billion a month in PI off of 3 toons for an account… which pays for 25 fitted vexors or 100 tristans. That doesn’t include insurance from losses or the stuff I loot from wins… which makes the isk last a little longer. That takes about 2 hours a month worth of total “maintenance” time.
Firstly. You need to stop dueling snooty folks with pistoles at thirty paces.
This garbage is for rich aristocrats who wear powdered wigs n stuff.
Secondly. Take other people’s things to pay for the things you lose.
This actually generates fights. Granted, you’re not gonna see 4 fights a session this way, but you need to adjust your expectations accordingly.
Thirdly. Pick fights that favor your win, but lead your opponent to believe they have the advantage. Stack the deck in your favor whenever possible.
Fourthly. Dullsec is great money, but it’s not gonna be a great source of ‘gudfights’. It’s traps and bubbles and all sorts of treachery. The moment you think you actually have a great one on one going, that’s when ten to a hundred of your opponent’s friends drop in to whore in on your killmail. Unless you’re into gatecamping for hours in hopes that someone clueless pops through it’s not gonna be fun for you as a solo pilot.
Fifth and final. Honor is a luxury of the rich. It’s good to have a code of conduct that you adhere to. However, you have to pay for what you lose, so you need to define that code with that in mind. Be it ‘don’t shoot the pod’ or ‘I always honor ransoms’ or whatever… it just needs to be practical, and if you stick to it folks who deal with you will understand. Unless you are swimming in ISK you just simply can’t afford to hold yourself to the highest standards of chivalry.
That said, steal all the things.
Shoot anyone who tries to stop you.
Insurance returns on T1 hulls is the best that there is. If you do not wish to make isk through other means such as null, WH, missions, low sec, trading, or industry then at least insure your hulls. You will save a lot of isk that way.
This is very different. In WoW and pretty much any other game you keep the stuff you have earned forever. Unlocked/crafted/found weapons, armor, etc. dont get destroyed when you die, they respawn with you. In EVE you need to grind for new gear after dieing.
I have to agree with this, I live in a WH and so get access to various low and null sec systems, I get far better fights (and see far more people) in low sec than null sec.
Constant PVP is a very expensive proposition. Like, when the big alliances go to war, billions, trillions of ISK worth of ships are risked and destroyed. This is why you don’t want to have constant PVP without breaks. EVE is not Overwatch.
To mitigate the costs, you have a number of PVE activities available, and also trading and industry, for making money. And, at the corporate and alliance level, the ISK that they get from moons and exploiting the local resources in the space that they control, that ISK is supposed to be used for ship reimbursement programs (SRP), so if you bring your expensive dreadnaught to an official fleet fight, and you lose it, you can get it back. You can google most of the big alliances and “SRP” and you’ll see they have various procedures for reimbursing people’s ships.
One thing to learn about EVE: the game doesn’t outright block you from doing stuff (training all skills, self-paying for a titan), but rather expects you to stop yourself when it’s no longer appropriate to do things solo or the way you’ve been doing them, and try a different way. Train only the skills you need right now for the ship you’re flying right now, find a good corp that will reimburse the ships that you lose.
PvP costs only so much as you want it to cost. You have control with what, whom, when and how you engage someone else. This should be enough to keep your losses in check or even make a profit from PvP. If you don’t have this kind of control of the odds, don’t blame the game.
But as said before, most of us do other things to earn ISK and happily burn it during PvP.
You can stick a t1 launcher on a kestrel, and go PVP.
Can PVP be expensive? yes.
Just ask any t3 cruiser pilot ever.
Is dualing in t1 cruisers expensive? Depends.
I think the problem here is your spending to much time PVP and not making money, I mean 4 fights a day in well fitted t1 or t2 hulls is a lot. A fight club isn’t how everyone PVPs. I know a lot of rich people in eve, and how they PVP is they take a 1b or 2b ship in low or null and look for fights. They don’t do this weekly or always lose their ship.
So my advice to is PVP for fun, and Eve is a game for fun, but PVP shouldn’t be seen as something you need to do to have fun. How I make isk in Eve is though incursions, and I love my job, so it doesn’t hurt to spend isk.
However, if you you hate what i’m saying, then I can only suggest then getting in to alliances like MC, where your stuff is srped a lot.
Tychicus has it right. There are a lot of rude responses in this thread that seem really defensive against what is really just a difference in perspective and gameplay values.
I understand where you are coming from, but the key thing to remember in this conversation is that EVE is, first and foremost, a sandbox. And the sandbox does not owe you anything. It is simply an environment in which you can find the tools to carve out a niche for yourself and engage in activities you enjoy. PvP is just one of many activities you can engage in, and one which by its very nature requires you to put the assets you worked to build up at risk.
Your ability to enjoy PvP given the high costs of throwing high-tech mind-piloted starships at each other is going to be mostly dependent on the extent to which you can bring yourself to appreciate the nature of the sandbox. I would think that and appreciation of the effort (either in-game or in RL to generate the income to purchase PLEX) involved in building up your assets, and the threat of that effort disappearing in a puff of smoke, is part of what makes the PvP so exciting.
Sorry, you lost me there. $12/mo is expensive to you for something you get dozens of hours of entertainment out of? That’s about as cheap as it can get.
This is the same guy that suggested the ammo script magazine thing, and so far this thread is kinda entertaining because of his flawed points of view here.
I think OP doesn’t know how to make money and is bitching because of it. Most people in this game ■■■■ out 10 bil a week or more. With little to no effort. Either from printing isk or from trade (in one form or another) or what a lot of pvpers do, mine and build your own, which adds another element to the game. Also, HS is lame.
So pretty safe to say less than $0.50/hr to play for even a casual player. And people are calling that expensive? It makes you wonder why anyone would ever pay for the game with plex instead of paying for subscriptions at this price.
First your math is off. Only the unemployed play EVE every single day. Most people play on the weekends and log-in stats reflect this. Second 4 fights per day is high unless you’re only doing public roams, etc. If we use your argument of winning 50% of the fights, then I define a fight as an encounter where there is a real chance of you losing your ship 50% of the time.
You’d be lucky to find even one of those per day roaming around nullsec in your small gang - because you’ll run from the 40+ man fleets and if you have a 50% chance of losing your ship from that lone Legion you managed to tackle with your buddies then you’re doing it wrong. Risk aversion is a real thing - due to the costs you pointed out.
Also bear in mind that eventually you and/or your buddies get good at PvP, too. Not only that, but you also get good at PvE. You stop wasting your time mining or running missions and instead only run complexes or C5/C6 wormhole sites. Etc. 200 million isk is not a small amount of isk. It is an insignificant amount of isk. If it’s not, then you probably shouldn’t be fitting ships with T2 gear anyway because you probably don’t have all the support skills you need to take advantage of it.
Its off but not in that way , I have a Full time Job and and renovating my apartment (2-3 hours per day for the past 2 weeks and i have still found time to play Eve everyday.
The way its off is
Even if you fly T1 hulls with T2 modules, to make use of your Omega skills, you will be spending upwards of 10 billion isk per month if you lose 60 fights per month (fight 4 per day, losing 2).
10Bil / 60 = 166mil per ship.
If you take the 20-30bil figure he mentions that’s 500mil per ship. Damn who loses 2x500 mil ships per day 7 days a week and that’s not even including insurance or money from loot ect. .
Using the more realistic Figure of 30mil per ship is 1.8Bil per month or 600mil if you use 10Mil isk Frigs. 1.8Bil is pretty easy to earn if you know what you are doing and if not that’s only like 600plex
Not every fight should result in a loss and not every loss of a fight should also result in loss of the ship. There are even fights you win and lose your ship (mostly if you don’t fly alone).
It all comes down to risk management when engaging in PvP:
Can I win?
If I realize that I can’t win after I engaged, can I disengage and get away?
Can I mitigate some of the lost value?
Some very easy measures to keep (personal) losses under control:
don’t fly alone, look for friends (with experience who will help in finding the right engagements)
join a corp that has SRP (so you have only one time costs for ships)
Additionally, find some way to generate income that doesn’t feel burdensome to you. For me, this is Faction Warfare missions, which I do once or twice a year for a week (when the tier is right). They pay well enough and are less boring than many other kinds of PvE due to involvement of other players.
