The context was that players attempting their first steps into PvP will likely be terribad at first. You dont get good at PvP overnight. You will fail many times before you get some success.
Ofc its not a success of the game or its mechanics that people dont return after a wardec. CCP and CSM clearly stated this is a big problem.
I dont understand what your angle is with your post to me.
My first account in eve I abandoned because there was no incentive to play as part of a corporation that would just be war declared by the usual suspects. When you’ve subbed for a year and you can’t play with your ‘group’ nobody is going to want to shell out 11-12 months worth of income as a ‘bond’ per person war declared in some attempt to incentivise returning to a broken system.
This account I started years later and will only ever run as NPC corporation to avoid the situation of the first. What’s the price of this freedom? %11 tax rate. Not awful if you mine and explore, its almost meaningless unless you do missions.
While CCP would make changes, if they will, they could also unblock the option to join NPC corporation you choose, for example Caldari Navy.
Victory conditions that pay out the wardec payment to the defender and increase a defender corps % of winning the war would be an incentive.
Such as for example Victory Conditions of mining a certain amount of certain ore, or running a certain amount of L4 or Exploration sites while under the wardec as defender, or not losing a ship to the aggressor in a day, etc.
In this way the defender corp can earn the wardec costs to itself, and can win the war by gaining victory condition % via other ingame activities that dont only involve blowing up the aggressors ships or assets.
This also means wardec cost can be turned into collateral paid to CONCORD for a war, rather than an isk sink, which is paid out to defender for completing victory conditions, which also increase their % of winning the war vs the aggressor.
So a defender can win a war and earn all the isk collateral paid by the aggressor, for itself, without ever once exploding a single ship or asset of the aggressor.
We agree we cant force people to PvP, but in this way, they can stay, earn and win the war without ever engaging in PvP, via PvE which is what they want to do.
I agree, but I think there should be a “good standing” requirement with that NPC Corp, to join.
You are good at this game, you know how to PvP, most hisec players including those that want to fight are not so experienced and good at it. I agree with you that they are not as good as they make out. But as we discussed in the war dec discord even a skirmish has to be carefully planned to deal with the neutral RR. Also if you go for it at certain station hubs, you have to be ready for a Nestor blob to undock. These are not things that any random small corp is going to be able to handle. And as soon as you set up for this, they don’t engage.
In nullsec you have any manner of conflict drivers to force people to come and fight, the ESS, IHUB’s, TCU’s, structures and best of all the Rorqual, and of course ratters and other less well endowed miners, let alone the fact that they own space. Where are the conflict drivers for the war deckers? They do not exist, but they do for indy corps, such as structures, it is not their fault that the war deckers find them too boring…
The clown asked me what do nullsec players do, well all you have to do is look at actions around Rorquals to get an answer, we just need something similar for the war deckers and the Propaganda structure which ends the war dec if destroyed does just that. Best of all it keeps Eve as it is with no safe spaces unless you play smart and can fight for it.
The Propaganda structure which ends the war dec if destroyed is a reason to fight, it has to be made doable by small entities against entities like PIRAT, that is the design constraint as balance has to be applied to the current state of hisec and adjusted as things improve.
I keep seeing discussions about incentives to return, or incentives to fight.
We’re talking about people who ( at least at first) do not want to fight. They log off for the duration because of this. You won’t change their minds by paying them, they just want to mission and mine.
They need some means to continue to do so whilst under wardec, hence my previous suggestion. If they sit it out they get bored. If they don’t log in for the week you’ve most likely lost them entirely.
At least if they are still in game they may over time become interested in fighting back.
that’s actually trivial to do as well, using a simple python script and continuous grabbing of screenshots.
*sips tea*
I have a headache. Since yesterday.
Did you read my post a few mins ago?
I did, and that can certainly help with those who want to fight back. However, we already know most aren’t interested at that stage in their game. Paying them to become whipping boys for wardec pilots isn’t that much of an incentive, unless they are already thinking of fighting back.
They don’t have to fight back.
They can win the war and earn all the wardec cost paid by the aggressor, completely through PvE or denying the aggressor destruction of their ships or structures.
The dont have to fire a single shot at the aggressor.
They can literally win the war, and earn isk, by doing PvE and avoiding PvP.
But to mine etc they have to put their ships in space and be a sitting duck. New players do not want to do this, and being slaughtered as a noob by experienced players does not feel good (apparently this is an important design consideration now).
I’m not saying victory conditions are a bad idea, they aren’t and I like them. However, I’m being realistic. At most a few percent are likely to take them up as noobs. The rest will still dock up and log out as per now. You stilllose most of them from the game.
For new players to stay in the game you need to get them invested in it. You don’t do that by keeping mechanics that have a best option as log out, come back in a week(if we’re lucky). This is especially bad given EvE’s well known learning cliff. A week out in the early stages of noobdem is incredibly demotivating.
Sitting there paranoidly watching local and warping if someone seems fishy is a burn out if you get zero reward. If you get some of the attackers isk for doing it it becomes a bit more rewarding. It’s not a bad thought.
In the system I suggest, the defender will automatically win if the aggressor fails to destroy enough ships and assets to achieve their own victory conditions as aggressor during the war.
The defenders “PvE” style victory, is only possible for the defender (in addition to PvP victory condition options, if they can do that too). The aggressor can only win by destroying ships and assets of the defender to advance their own victory %.
In other words, even if the defenders log out for the entire time, they still win, and earn isk out of the wardeccers pockets.
Another alternative, is that Corps can buy wardec immunity from CONCORD, or pay to stop a wardec.
In the same way that a wardec is considered a “bribe” to CONCORD by an aggressor, potential defenders can also “bribe” CONCORD to not be wardecced, or have a wardec removed.
If you can win the war by logging out for a week, that is exactly what everyone will do. And the defenders are still out of EvE for the week. Also what action can the agressor take against logged out players?
This is purely a case of biggest wallet being immune to wars, pushing them down to the newer, more poor corps. This would be pretty bad in that sense.
The problem is not them logging out, its them not returning afterwards.
When they win the war and earn isk, it incentives return far beyond what incentive exists now.
None.
The cost of the immunity can be scaled to the size of the Corp in Omegas.
Making it cheaper, the smaller you are.
Blow up undefended structures, and stopping them from playing is a victory for them too, ignoring the creation of victory conditions based on ships destroyed of course.
Pretty much that, in any case the war deckers will just create multiple corps to war dec a target and drain the defenders wallet in doing so.
No you cannot. I do not, nor do I wish to shell out $15 per month for a game where joining a corporation causes an increase in personal risk and forces the expenditure of skill points ( and therefore $$$ ) just to train PvP centric skills that I wouldn’t have needed in the first place in order to save a measly 11% NPC tax rate.
Not if immunity is purchased for say weeks at a time.
It wont matter how many subcorps the aggressor forms, all wardecs from them will be denied as long as the target defender corp has bought existing immunity when they attempt to issue those wardecs.
To help avoid gaming this with more or less Omegas in the immunized defender Corp, the charge for the immunity can be charged daily from Corp wallet, as scaling per day depending on how many Omegas they currently have.
That could work so it is a war dec immunity purchased against all war decs, not a specific entity. But have you any idea on pricing levels and do bear in mind that hisec corps especially new ones are not rolling in ready cash…, you have to balance for the current state of hisec and adjust.
What rubbish, anyone who can read dotlan knows that its impossible to get from Jita to Ammarr without going through one 0.5 system, so this proposal would just limit people to only a few areas with no means of traversal between them.