I just can’t understand the hardcore simping on behalf of Sols and others who can’t get the taste of CCP’s crotch out of their mouth… Hit up youtube, see how popular eve videos have become over the course of 2020, get back to me.
No matter how much they cater to addicts, it’s a limited, dying market. Addicts either escape addiction, or die.
Adrenaline is the hardest drug to give up.
Kezrai is well aware that she’s taking facts which support her view …
… and ignoring facts which don’t.
That way she can still truthfully claim she talks about facts.
You’re all just constantly being trolled.
Gee Sol, you’ve been backing out of a number of debates lately with the “you’re all trolls or idiots” excuse, when your opinions about things face any significant challenge.
Please feel free to point out the facts which I’m suppressing here. Destiny tried to inject some facts, but got them wrong. Scipio tried data but got nothing more from it than “Destruction is fun”. Scoots never had any facts at all, just negative opinions (as always). He recently raised a valid issue that has an entirely obvious counter that anyone can see, but he’s down a troll-hole so he can find his own way out of the dark. Tutucox tried to add some data, but basically all he had was “people who like EVE PvP don’t complain about it” and “your forum account doesn’t do PvP, AHA! Caught you!”.
So yeah, no actual facts, just a lot of posing along the lines of “PvPers are awesome and cool and the best, and carebears are scum, and we don’t need no steenkeeng ‘facts’ for that!”. And they all got really pissy when they were refuted. I guess the brand of PvPer we get on the forum really isn’t keen on engaging targets that shoot back.
I’m hoping to free up a little time later today to summarize some details because all the crying PvPers have kind of lost the track here. Stay tuned!
my point was represented in a fair way have a heart 
Indeed! And one for you as well, because your point was valid from that perspective and adds some context.
So just for completeness: Yes, I have PvPed. Yes, some of it was interesting and fun. Yes, there are certainly unique and special aspects about EVE PvP mechanics and design. Yes, some people enjoy it just the way it is. Yes, in a raw-numbers sense, there’s quite a lot of PvP happening so it’s not some rare bird.
And also yes, I found the PvP in EVE became boring for me quite a bit sooner than in other games. I’ve PvPed in a lot of games, some of them with quite bad PvP mechanics. I’ve also PvPed in some quite good ones, and also in some where it’s at best ‘meh’ but the overall game design keeps you PvPing anyway because it’s got a decent supporting structure of rewards/benefits.
So if anything, I’m agitating for a more comprehensive, better designed PvP system in EVE that causes a higher percent of players to engage in PvP somewhat more often. If we could bring PvP up from say 15% of all activity in the game, to more like 20-25%, then that would be the goal. Since someone will dispute those numbers I just pulled out of the air as examples, let’s just say the goal should be 50% more PvP than is currently the case.
To achieve that takes smart and targeted mechanics and design changes. It will never, ever happen from the actions of spoiled high-sec "PvP"ers complaining about ‘carebears’ getting ‘catered to’ all the time and the gankers not getting enough easy high-value loot drops to fund their habit.
(And as an aside, it will never ever happen from relying on “Scarcity breeds conflict”, which is a total crock and misdirection effort.)
Ok, I will throw you a hypothetical then, lets say there was no pvp and no destruction in eve.
Describe to me how eve would be doing now?
Destruction is a necessary evil in order to keep the gears grinding else all the pve will clog it up and eventually everything will just because pointless once you have all the best stuff in game.
I’m not sure what the point of your hypothetical is? Let’s say there were no miners/haulers in EVE and see how far things go then? You’re not even addressing the topic.
The topic is, destruction for the sake of destruction - as CCP has been doing all year - is stupid and counterproductive. If you want more destruction, make it part of engaging gameplay so more players participate in it.
And the whole “we need to fix the economy with these rebalances, players pointed out the rich keep getting richer and the poor poorer, so Scarcity Breeds Conflict” is the solution is a steaming pile of BS.
Yes, bounty farming in Null needed to be dialed back, maybe some types of mass mineral exploitation needed to be adjusted. Not all the changes are bad. But over the past year, a number of the changes put together have led to a downturn that hurts small entities and new players far more than it does large ones. The end result is pretty much the opposite of what CCP says they were trying to do… not that that’s any great surprise.
What does this even mean? Do you have an actual examples or are you just using feel good buzzword phrases like “engaging gameplay” just to argue for the sake of arguing?
The mistake here is thinking that the system has something to do with why more people don’t pvp.
People do what they do based on what they like. People who pvp crave situations where they can prove they are better at something than someone else AND they love the randomness of it (when you get a fight, where you get a fight, what you are fighting and so on).
I have a buddy that when he gets on he NEEDs to find someone to kill, and he loves regaling me with stories of how he outsmarted this dude, or got under that dude’s guns.
PVE players tend to play for gain, tend to not crave that kind of novelty so much (in fact, many PVE players probably find comfort in repetition which is why lvl 4 missions are more popular than the abyss).
Which is why I like escalations. but I refrain from telling my buddy a bout how I got too close to those Blood Raider BCs that time and had to MJD away to survive (lol).
CCP has made the same mistake. I was in Faction Warfare on day one and it was EPIC for several months. Then people drifted back to null or high sec or whatever.
Eventually CCP added all kinds of rewards to FW. They made FW missions worth doing (they weren’t in the beginning) and added rewards for simply pvping. Instead of increasing the numbers of people PVPing, it just brought in “rewards seekers” to meta game and manipulate FW with alts on all sides. It got (and remains) silly.
You can’t make people pvp, they will do it if pvping matches their psychological needs for glory.
These kids will never admit that anything you say has merit. Eve online is not marketed at normal gamers, it is marketed at toxic trash. Trolls? Spammers? Botters? those are the players eve online wants, because trolls make ideal addicts. Addicts don’t worry about the game, they just keep spending money.
And yet the literally millions of players out there throwing billions of dollars at all the pure PvP and survival games are saying, quite loudly, “I’ll PvP all day long and pay for the privilege, as long as you make it interesting for me”.
People don’t PvP in EVE because EVE PvP is a slow, cumberson, rigged game. There’s a very small portion of the PvP marketplace that desires that kind of setup. EVE was designed by guys who fled Ultima Online/Origin and tried to create “Ganks in Spaaace” because they couldn’t get enough hiding in bushes and backstabbing merchants in UO.
EVE has been kept alive and in business through the many years because they also made a great economic game. It’s the economic players and producers that have subbed and kept the lights on through all of CCPs’ many blunders. The economic game does derive some benefit from the destruction caused by PvP, although it’s hard to tell if the net overall game benefit is positive. Most other MMORPGs and even CCP itself has shown that NPCs do destruction better than the gankers hiding in the bushes with their backstab ready.
EVE needs more destruction. It needs more players to engage in the destruction. It needs a better set of PVP mechanics/consequences/rewards/benefits/tools to achieve that. The current set of PvPers is too inbred and too profit/gank/sure-win focused to achieve it.
Otherwise CCP will just go on introducing more and more NPC destruction into the game to achieve their ends, and PvP will become an even more minority activity than it is now.
Everyone knows what you’re trying to say, just come out and say it. “Stop nerfing easy ways to make isk and introduce this mythical “engaging gameplay” that would increase destruction instead!”
Or she is saying, stop letting bots and nolives with 12+ accounts ruin the game for everyone else. If nolives with 12 accounts are the norm, the game needs to die, for common human decency.
What happens in MOBAs and MMORPG pvp are different animals. The 2 types of game attract different people.
This is why in your average MMORPG, it’s the PVe servers that are popular and the pvp servers, less so, and yet MOBAs are super hot.
You’re thinking that something can be done in EVE that makes people want to engage in pvp, but that idea is silly. There is nothing stopping anyone from PVPing and we have examples of what happens in this kind of game when you try to “sweeten the pvp pot” with some kind of reward (the mess that is FW).
The best thing CCP could do is not care about how people play EVE so long as they keep playing EVE.
Multiboxers have always been a scapegoat. Everytime CCp has shared the numbers with us, it’s shown that the VAST majority of EVE players have one account and the average is less than 1.5 accounts per player/
True (5+ account) Multiboxers are a tiny, tiny tiny minority, but they are super visible so people think it happens way more than it does.
Don’t bother, he’s got a chip on his shoulder the size of Florida.
Oh I know, I was reading some other comments and the way Kezrai mentions PVPrs is a clue lol. I always dislike that “us vs them” stuff, bias blinds people to so much.
Some things never change around here I guess.
heh I’m not talking about Kezrai, I don’t agree with what she posts but she’s not a troll or a moron.
I’m talking about Andresoni.
He’s basically a reincarnation of Fab Rod.
Dear God