The Plasma Mystery

[Mizhir]

Ever since moving back to Anoikis I have been greeted by this view when I enjoy my morning cup of tea. Plasma planets have been a regular target of my curiosity since I first laid my eyes on one, but after many years of space they remain a mystery to me.

The scientific explanation is quite simple. The combination of solar radiation and a planet with the right kind of atmosphere and magnetic field will create these magnificent storms. However, I often get the feeling that there is more to it.

I once met a Sebiestor shaman who described Aurora Polaris as a gateway between the spirit world and our world. He mentioned that the spirits of our ancestors would greet the spirits of the recently departed and guide them into the spirit world. Aurora Polaris isn’t exclusive to temperate planets with life, so his anecdote didn’t account for that. On the other hand, no one knows if the spirits are bound by the same laws of physics that we are. Maybe they inhabit more planets than we would have thought. Which leads us back to the plasma planets:

Are the plasma planets hotspots for the spirit world? Are they a gateway into the world beyond or are they merely just physics that fascinates us? We will probably never know, yet I will continue to ponder about their role in the universe.

[GAREGIN_NZHDEH]

This question was asked to me by someone, do we exist beyond death, a question better answered by more intelligent people than I, but I will post what I told that person the best way I can recall.

Firstly if there is an existence beyond it will be in a way that is probably beyond our physical understanding.
Our expectations are often colored by what we know, but what we know is tied to a physical existence.
We do have a ‘spark’ of life, the energy, this energy is chemical, from start to finish, the energy of conversions of these substances, when we die this conversions stop.
If I understand you correctly you believe that these plasma energies might help to keep this ‘spark’ around in one form or another.

To answer definitively would be beyond arrogance for me, so I say yes/no/maybe, it’s why we just can’t keep a person alive by artificial means indefinitely, while the body can be kept live by artificial means it too will deteriorate till putting energy into it does nothing to keep it from eventually dying off, so this consciousness that makes us, us, is unique to the brain that is the keeper of this consciousness, by chemical means, can ionizing energy capture this consciousness, the answer most likely is no, the reasoning behind my belief is that everything vibrates at it’s own frequencies, and energy more so, ionizing energy is high energy while humans are low energy in comparison, the energies are incompatible as the frequencies of the energies are different.

Think of it this way, a power inverter converts DC energy into AC energy BUT they sell inverters called sine wave “very low harmonic distortion” in other words less noise, vibration, variation in the way the energy is coming in, so sensitive electronics that do not handle changes because of the way it is, same as the way high energy is not compatible with us, to much, wrong frequencies, wrong vibrations.

The only way to overcome this is technology, to make things compatible, but, then there is other problems that would arise, how do people act when full of energy, like when on coffee, energy drinks, or when they are on depressants, etc, so the transfer of our consciousness has some very insurmountable obstacles to overcome.

[Teinyhr]

@Mizhir

Are the plasma planets hotspots for the spirit world?

It depends firstly on what kind of spirits do you mean, and how far does your understanding of spirits go? If spiritual world you speak of is where the essences of our ancestors exist, then I would echo my mother who taught me that spiritual essences tend to congregate with similar essences, meaning, you will find most formerly human spirits amongst where there is or was human life. Generally speaking, spiritual essences of all kinds are attracted to lifeforce, which explains why you can meet spirits even in the coldness of space, and especially on large stations.

This of course is not to say that spirits have to be bound to life, certainly many appear to travel around the universe on a whim, and some claim to have knowledge that transcends life and time - this of course being the basis for some forms of divination and guiding spirits.

Because Plasma planets are quite inhospitable to life, spirits as many of us understand them probably are a rare occurrence, moreover, the magnetic properties of such planets might even make it harder for them to make their presence known, if they do visit them. But, considering the scarcity of shamans and other spiritually sensitive people who regularly visit plasma planets, to answer your question… Well, it is hard to say anything definitive.

From what I was taught and how I’ve come to view the world from my own experiences though, for what its worth, is that I don’t see plasma planets as gateways to the world beyond. The spiritual world is all around us and the gateways or “channeling rods” are people sensitive to its presence. Note that I am not disputing the explanation a sebiestor shaman has given you, but our clan have our own beliefs.

[GAREGIN_NZHDEH]

Using this “The Sebiestor belief system is based on the recognition of spiritual essence, or resonance” you can split this belief into parts, the spiritual is just belief, while the resonance deals with vibrations/waves, and as such is more leaning towards the sciences, and as such shows a duality in the belief.
Depending on a person’s approach because of factors unique to them and their upbringing this is a revelation or a flop.

[Teinyhr]

You know it’s not just a Sebiestor belief system, and frankly I’m somewhat annoyed Sebiestor spirituality gets all the atttention…

[Mizhara_Del_thul]

Speak of your Tribe and Clans then? I would listen all day.

[Rana_Ash]

Before my clan setteld, there used to be alot of wandering. And every year there was a gathering of clans to hash out marriages or disputes, as a child i was told of stories of special places the gatherings where held at.
Places where the veil between the living and dead where thin, so the advice or opinions from our ancestors could be heard.
While i can not specifically say it was over a plasma planet, with out digging deep into the clans history. One might very well have considerd such a place…

[Mizhir]

@GAREGIN_NZHDEH

Firstly if there is an existence beyond it will be in a way that is probably beyond our physical understanding.
Our expectations are often colored by what we know, but what we know is tied to a physical existence.

This is certainly something that further complicates this topic. Everything we know about the spirit realm is mere shadows cast on a wall. We can try to interpret the shadows but in the end they say little about the object that casts the shadows. Even the master shamans or wise mystics still struggle to interpret the wisdom they are taught by our ancestors. Even the most abstract minds can’t comprehend the spirit world. However we can still try. Which lead me to start this discussion, so I could hear the inputs of others who see the world with other eyes.

[Mizhir]

The things your mother taught you are similar to the teachings within my own clan. After all, it would make sense that our ancestors are near us when they guide us. On the other hand, all of this, including my original post, builds on the idea that the spirit world has a spacial structure similar to the one we live in. Likewise I have been taught by Mystics that the spirit world doesn’t follow time as we know it. As I mentioned in my reply to Garegin Nzhdeh, the spirit world transcends our imagination and we are merely just studying shadows.

This does make me think of another possible theory about the plasma planets. As you mention they are quite inhospitable, thus being a place rarely visited by spirits. But what if the special conditions of the plasma planets made the ‘shadows’ of the spirit world more visible. So what we are observing is not a gateway, but simply a place with a barrier so thin that the pressence of even few spirits can cast so many ‘shadows’ into our world. This could also explain the case with Aurora Polaris.

I definitely agree with you that there are many gateways or ‘channeling rods’ between our world and the spirit world. My original idea suggested that there were special places where this occured naturally, where as most of the methods we use tend to be through special rituals and sensitive people that helps to bridge our world with the spirit world.

My own clan has no teachings about Aurora Polaris and I asked my mother about teachings from other clans, but she didn’t find anything. So I would conclude that our own rituals developed fully independant on these phenomena, as our Vherokior Ancestors lived far away from polar regions. The sebiestor shaman whom I spoke with, on the other hand, had plenty of teachings about Aurora Polaris and even some rituals that relates to them. This is a great example on how our rituals have developed depending on our surroundings.

@Rana_Ash The above could explain if your clan had their gaterings in proximity of a plasma planet, since there are similarities between the plasma storms and Aurora Polaris. But there are also plenty of other locations where it is possible to find a strong enough connection to the spirit world. Many Vherokior clans have ventured deep into the deserts for their gatherings so there would be as little ‘background noise’ as possible.

[Teinyhr]

@Mizhara_Del_thul

Speak of your Tribe and Clans then? I would listen all day.

I will, but it will take some time to draft so that my mother wont go mad with rage on how clueless her daughter is. And probably will be a topic of its own.

@Mizhir I will also reply to this later.

[Teinyhr]

@Mizhir

On the other hand, all of this, including my original post, builds on the idea that the spirit world has a spacial structure similar to the one we live in. Likewise I have been taught by Mystics that the spirit world doesn’t follow time as we know it. As I mentioned in my reply to Garegin Nzhdeh, the spirit world transcends our imagination and we are merely just studying shadows.

Ultimately when we are discussing Matari spiritualism, we’re just comparing and sharing our interpretations of it. I honestly can’t say anyone’s interpretation is wrong, though of course I may disagree with them personally.

@Mizhir

This does make me think of another possible theory about the plasma planets. As you mention they are quite inhospitable, thus being a place rarely visited by spirits. But what if the special conditions of the plasma planets made the ‘shadows’ of the spirit world more visible. So what we are observing is not a gateway, but simply a place with a barrier so thin that the pressence of even few spirits can cast so many ‘shadows’ into our world. This could also explain the case with Aurora Polaris.

I’m not quite sure I understand - do you mean that the plasma storms are shadows of the spirit world, like Aurorae? Or did I misunderstand? Hmm. I would say that they certainly could be manifestations of “shadows”, or they just also could not be. I will have to think about that a bit more, but I suppose for now I would have to say I honestly don’t know whether to make heads or tails about that theory as it is.

@Mizhir

I definitely agree with you that there are many gateways or ‘channeling rods’ between our world and the spirit world. My original idea suggested that there were special places where this occured naturally, where as most of the methods we use tend to be through special rituals and sensitive people that helps to bridge our world with the spirit world.

Ah. So, perhaps there is a fundamental difference here, in that you see the spirit world as a separate world from ours? Because for me, well, the spirit world is here right now, yet it also isn’t. It is a world in shadows as you say, but it also isn’t. I cannot quite explain it beyond “I just have this feeling about it”, and point to the idea of the spiritual world having its own laws of time, physics, and mayhap, existence itself that our mortal minds cannot comprehend, at best we might have a primal sense of understanding, but we can’t quite describe it because there are no words for it.

There certainly are places where one can commune with spirits better than elsewhere, but I don’t quite see it as “weak borders” kind of thing, more that certain places have stronger residual energy, resulting from either rituals done there or from things that have happened in the area that have evoked great joy or anxiety (like birth and death) and that some places also are simply less distracting to the mind.

@Mizhir

My own clan has no teachings about Aurora Polaris and I asked my mother about teachings from other clans, but she didn’t find anything. So I would conclude that our own rituals developed fully independant on these phenomena, as our Vherokior Ancestors lived far away from polar regions. The sebiestor shaman whom I spoke with, on the other hand, had plenty of teachings about Aurora Polaris and even some rituals that relates to them. This is a great example on how our rituals have developed depending on our surroundings.

Yes, I am planning to make a more in-depth look at Minmatar spiritualism in addition to shining some light on my clans spirituality, though of course in a mere forum post one can but scratch the surface. Anyway, my clans most ancient shamanistic records do have mentions of Aurorae, which were considered omens (often ill omens) due to their rarity.

But I concur, that beliefs, rituals, etc. between Tribes certainly have been moulded by their surroundings, though of course many similarities also exist between all. But for differences, for example, for Sebiestor, fire is an important element, for where Vherokior place greater importance on water, both of which represent something essential to life to both Tribes in their ancestral habitats.

[Isha_Vuld]

I suspect that plasma worlds are an entirely natural phenomena with no connection to the spirit world. The spirit world is an existance separate from our own with few, if any, real material connections. Spiritual connections are there, but they can be highly personal.

I always believed that one could see the faintest glimmer of the spirit world seeping through in the little things, though, such as the beauty of a serene grove, or a flock of jungle birds or butterflies. In the tranquility of a still pond or the slow motions of stars.

Plasma storms are visually striking and impressive, and I suspect that it has few connections to the ethereal.

[GAREGIN_NZHDEH]

Plasma energies are simply too random to have enough cohesion to allow for consciousness, all the elements that make a thought a thought, are the result of an experiences we have with our senses, a disembodied consciousness will only experience chaos and disorder to actually perceive anything properly and thus lost.

[Mizhara_Del_thul]

@Isha_Vuld

plasma worlds are an entirely natural phenomena

… are you trying to imply the spirits are not?

[Mizhir]

I apologize for the late reply. There has been so many things that have required my attention.

@Teinyhr

Ultimately when we are discussing Matari spiritualism, we’re just comparing and sharing our interpretations of it. I honestly can’t say anyone’s interpretation is wrong, though of course I may disagree with them personally.

There is nothing that’s purely black or white, nor right or wrong, when it comes to Matari spiritualism. This is what makes it interesting so talk about with people from other clans. You can always learn something new.

@Teinyhr

I’m not quite sure I understand

I apologize for my poor wording. You have to think of it in a metaphorically way.

Imagine you are a creature living in a dark cave. The cave is the only place you have ever been, so to you it’s the entire world. In the ceiling there is a hole which casts a ray of light into the cave. But the light is to bright that you can’t see what’s up there. Sometimes something passes by the hole and they will cast a shadow into the cave. You see the shadow and wonder what it is, but you will never be able to know what it actually is. Now imagine the cave being our world and the world above being the spirit world. We can only see the “shadows” from there but never able to see what they actually are. We can just guess.

@Teinyhr

Ah. So, perhaps there is a fundamental difference here, in that you see the spirit world as a separate world from ours?

Both yes and no. It’s a world parallel to ours but at the same time right there among us. And as you mention it doesn’t necessarily follow the same rules as ours. It may not have the same spatial spread. It may not have the same time aspect. We can only guess.

@Teinyhr

There certainly are places where one can commune with spirits better than elsewhere, but I don’t quite see it as “weak borders” kind of thing, more that certain places have stronger residual energy,

In the end it’s probably the same. We just describe it in two different ways.

@Teinyhr

Yes, I am planning to make a more in-depth look at Minmatar spiritualism in addition to shining some light on my clans spirituality, though of course in a mere forum post one can but scratch the surface. Anyway, my clans most ancient shamanistic records do have mentions of Aurorae, which were considered omens (often ill omens) due to their rarity.

Interesting. I will be looking forward to hearing more.

[Mizhir]

@Isha_Vuld

I suspect that plasma worlds are an entirely natural phenomena with no connection to the spirit world.

Some may argue that you and I are just bags of biochemestry.

@Isha_Vuld

I always believed that one could see the faintest glimmer of the spirit world seeping through in the little things, though, such as the beauty of a serene grove, or a flock of jungle birds or butterflies. In the tranquility of a still pond or the slow motions of stars.

Exactly. The world is truely amazing when you notice the small details of nature. But sometimes you can also find it where you least expect it. I have heard Sebiestors describe spirits of the machines. So maybe the plasma planets also offers us a glimmer of the spirit world.

@GAREGIN_NZHDEH

Plasma energies are simply too random to have enough cohesion to allow for consciousness

I do not think that the plasma energies themselves houses the consciousness but instead they can be footprints of it. Also keep in mind that if a pattern is too complex for someone it will seem random. And some patterns may be too complex for the human mind to even comprehend.

[Annisir_Kaugan]

‘Spirits’ are simply a primitive attempt to explain the Universe. Even as we were developing real science, terms like ‘Vapours’, ‘Ether’, and the like were used. I’m Vherokior and I feel more than ever, following researches, that the ancient spirits referred to are most likely Jovians of some description.

[Teinyhr]

@Mizhir

I apologize for my poor wording. You have to think of it in a metaphorically way.

Ok, I think I possibly got what was meant. I would have to then think that to me, there are no indications that Aurorae and plasma planets are shadows of the spiritual world. Our understanding of the world and the interaction with spiritual world just doesn’t ascribe such properties to the fourth state of matter. Of course this theory is possible, but I just don’t personally believe in it. It would seem our and some Sebiestors views differ on this.

@Mizhir

Both yes and no. It’s a world parallel to ours but at the same time right there among us. And as you mention it doesn’t necessarily follow the same rules as ours. It may not have the same spatial spread. It may not have the same time aspect. We can only guess.

@Mizhir

In the end it’s probably the same. We just describe it in two different ways.

On these we seem to agree.

@Mizhir

Interesting. I will be looking forward to hearing more.

This is still coming, despite delays. Finding the right words to convey the right meanings has turned out surprisingly difficult.

[Mizhir]

@Annisir_Kaugan

‘Spirits’ are simply a primitive attempt to explain the Universe. Even as we were developing real science, terms like ‘Vapours’, ‘Ether’, and the like were used. I’m Vherokior and I feel more than ever, following researches, that the ancient spirits referred to are most likely Jovians of some description.

I strongly disagree. I am a scientist myself but I believe that science and spiritualism are two different things that I keep seperately.

[Annisir_Kaugan]

They are, without a shadow of a doubt. I was meaning that for a society, or group, to ascribe things to some kind of disembodied spirit, is how primitive societies work. The scientific approach is to, hypothesize, test and validate the results. It comes down to how you define spirituality, and that is always a personal thing. In away, it is how anyone works out how their personal universe works, and how they fit into it. That is something that comes with time, because that personal universe is endlessly changing, which is the nature of things. Taking it as step further, when one person’s personal beliefs are given as being the only way, or the only true way, then it becomes religion. Which is a whole different game of Colonize. Religion is not about you learning how you fit into the universe, its about you being told how you fit into the universe and are expected to behave. So it becomes a system of control. That is not always a bad thing; the Amarrian Empire manages to generally operate in a stable fashion because of it. Although as societies grow then different interpretations of the core beliefs become popular and offshoot cults form, hence Sani Sabik.
The Caldari, and Gallente take a more pragmatic approach, and religion does not really affect how their societies operate to any great degree. With the Minmatar, its more a case of a social mechanism maintained by hidebound tradition, one of their great failings and a good part of why I rarely choose to visit my homelands. For the Jove, we cannot say, although I have yet to see any evidence of any Jovian religion. My continuing researches into Triglav indicate that they use metaphors, rather than having a complex religious system.
It is possible, that the Minmatar Elders met some form of disembodied energy being that we ourselves have yet to encounter. The Universe is a strange place at times and wonders abound. I simply find it easier to believe in an advanced race, trying to meet with a primitive one in a way they could understand, perhaps some form of holographic projection.