Ditto to your post.
–Reciprocal Gadget
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Thats however by a big part because its not pvp in other games. Different servers, artificial demand and even people simply using the same ressource are common in other games. Its ultra-inflating that way, only keeping up by getting devalued and then new stuff comes. Eve would need something like that too, if you just remove the pvp aspects, and once a year, we mine/collect new stuff and trash our old.
To keep things up, things cant just stay valued. You either
- Let players destroy stuff, so new/constant collecting is required
- Let the dev devalue your stuff and giving you new to collect (the loot spiral of WoW - log in after 2 years, and your stuff is free to collect, but you now have the superultraduperhardcorehypearmor. ofc, only to the next patch.
- Let none of this happen and roll the credits when one collected everything. usually singleplayers/campaigns.
Understanding this basic concept makes clear, why eve is either becoming wow in space, or stays a pvp game.
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How can you laugh after play a months to get billions and then sudenly lose it? Yes it’s a game. Ships are unreal, characters are emotionless. But players not.
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Why would you think I want this? I’m not saying EvE should be like this, EvE should not be like this, it should not be like every other MMO.
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Player versus player
Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants. This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer controlled opponents, which is correspondingly referred to as player versus environment. The terms are most often used in games where both activities exist, particularly MMORPGs, MUDs, and other role-playing video games. PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other. In computer role-playing games, PvP is sometimes called player killing or PKing.
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Im prepared to bet you find the comuppance of the stupid hilarious on a daily basis.
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“Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose.”
It’s no one’s fault but your own if you violate this rule.
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We can laugh about it because we’re mature enough to accept that when you choose to play a game like Eve, there’s a good chance of losing substantial amounts in an instant; and we plan for it. The laughing isn’t immediate, firstly you take responsibility for whatever happened, then you look at what happened to see if you can learn from it, only then do you laugh it off.
If I lose a couple of billion here and there it’s no big deal, I know enough about my chosen areas of the game to make it back fairly quickly if I need to, and I’ve always got my stockpiles to fall back on if it goes totally tits up.
I play Eve for fun, not to watch my wallet grow; any wallet growth is a consequence of the things I consider to be fun; if they paid less I’d still do them because fun/hour > isk/hour.
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TBH, Some of us don’t laugh about it immediately. We are only human after all.
But we get there in the end.
For example, I lost a Stratios to a bit of misjudgment - Dude had friends, and I had the opportunity to leave…
Wasn’t laughing… Wasn’t happy.
I said GF, docked my pod, and then went to the pub for the rest of the night.
Next day, I was ready to jump back in the pod.
It’s not that we’re emotionless, it’s that we’ve learned how to deal with them.
–Gadget (alt) got pwned
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dont take it out of context. IF, it would need.
i strongly discourage that way of handling things.
Well, on the other hand, you’re right there Jahar. Eve really is serious business. We put huge amounts of careful care and work into it, especially when we’re newbros. (By the laws of nature, everybody starts as a newb/newbro. No matter how keen or talented anybody is, or how much help they get from friends already in the game-- they have to start from scratch as a noob).
In any event, yeah, it’s a real train wreck if/when you lose loads of work, maybe a year or even more of work, because of some game mechanic that you may not taken account of-- but somebody else did. Somebody else who knows it much better than you do, and may specialize in it. Here’s my little ragequit tale about that:
Was moving from one highsec system to another, 19 jumps away. Was thinking about how the other guys and me could operate as guerillas coming into null sec, looking around, and trying to cause some chaos and havoc among the villages. (That was Harry Forever’s carebear invasion of Goon space campaign, way back when, btw). So, I’m all moved, except for my most unaffordable ship (a Stabber Fleet Issue, which I bought from World Cup winnings when we had EVEBet). And the little POS-researched BPOs and other T2 indy stuff needed to set up shop at the new home. Here we go!
But: Forgot I was temporarily in Estel Arador corp. Just meant to be in it long enough to get a jump clone back to home base. (Estel Arador provided the standings needed for that, back when you needed big standing with a station’s corp to be able to have a jump clone there). In any event, I forgot, and a certain alliance (Marmilade, Myrmidons, something like that) who persistently wardec and camp in high sec happened to have a wardec on my corp at that moment. In an instant-- all gone. I accepted their offer to sing in their voice comms in exchange for some of my BPOs, etc. loot back. Unfortunately, I was probably a little too eager with my acceptance. “Sure, I’ll sing. I used to live in Japan, I’ve been forced to sing, I have a lot of practice at karaoke. Let me at it!” Well, at that, the bustards got silent and reneged on the deal. Shite. 1.5 years or so of finely-tuned work. Gone in 2 seconds because of a little lapse and a pack of bustards… To be continued
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It isn’t “my own private language” it is noting that competition is competition, and when it is between players, it is player(s) vs. player(s).
Yes it was, you made a direct appeal to what “most people think.” Most people thought that the earth was flat for a long time. The dominant theory of the solar system had the earth at the center. That the majority thought these things true did not make them true.
The solution is to educate them, not cater to their ignorance. Problem is many of these newbros can be some of the worst at hurling invective. The notion that one is a real life sociopath for playing a LS pirate is a fine example of that kind of blinkered behavior.
Which is one of the Golden Rules of EVE and anyone googling “rules of eve online” would find that list in short order.
I don’t laugh. I lost a JF to complete imprudence on my part. I bit off more risk than I realized. Was I upset? Yes, but not at the guys who burnt down my rhea, I was upset at myself. I made a mistake, a bad one. Fortunately I follow, as much as I possibly can, the Golden Rules and after some sober reflection on how I screwed up, how I can mitigate that risk, I went out and bought a brand new Anshar (better tank).
However, I am not sympathetic to the player who has amassed considerable in game resources and then loses them to a freighter gank because they over loaded their freighter, weakened its tank, and didn’t even use a simple scout. I am unsympathetic because that guy has mostly likely been around long enough he should have known better.
Protracted ignorance is never a virtue and it should never be rewarded. Rewarding continued ignorance only means you end up with more ignorance. If you are going to subsidize something, subsidize those things that have a positive impact.
The sad fact is most people who complain about freighter ganking and other aspects of the game where lots of ISK is “lost” suddenly, is due to people not understanding risk. Many players think that risk is something that CCP should balance. But if you (generic you) are stupid and foolish and take on lots of risk as a result…why should CCP come along and impose a commensurate level of risk on players who are smart and prudent? Showing these nincompoops this kind of error in their logic does nothing but piss them off, by the way. I have yet to see one say, “Oh…yeah. You’re right.” Instead they dig in and insist that risk is something CCP needs to balance and it leads them to make the most ridiculous suggestions.
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People are used to play a skinnerbox with restart-button. Just press the right buttons, try again if you dont - i think they lost all feel how artificial other games handle that you cant make a lot of mistakes. And then they come to eve, where you can lose 20x in a row and a lot if you dont watch out, and dont know how to deal with that.
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Remember before when I said you were bad at things like language and logic, this is what I meant.
If I had said anything like “they think it so it is a true model of things” you would be right, but I never said anything like that! I said “because most of the population understands ‘PvP’ to mean ‘killing’ most new people coming to the will understand ‘PvP’ only in that way, not in the expanded way it’s used in EvE.” I never said they had a correct definition, or that anyone should change to fit them, or that they were right.
If anything I stated a tautology in the form of “most people think because most people think” But it wasn’t any sort of an “appeal” to what people think, it was an observation about what people think. According to your “logic” we should all think you are trying to prove the earth is flat, just because you said most people thought it was.
Yes, but doesn’t change the fact that most people don’t use the phrase “PvP” like that. Here is what your conversation looks like:
Normal person: That’s a nice pair of pants.
Teckos: It’s only one, “pair” is two, you can’t call it a pair when it’s only one.
Normal person: Sure it’s only one, but it’s still called a “pair of pants.”
Teckos: No, you are wrong, it’s only one, it can’t be a pair!
You don’t care about how most/normal people use language, you can’t accept that language use can be different from technical meaning. This is either “private language” or something on the spectrum.
I never suggested one way or the other. I only said they were ignorant, and that we should be aware of that. Words like “PvP” have a special meaning in EvE compared to other MMOs, so we should not expect a newbro to have the EvE understanding when they start. They could have looked things up and they could have that understanding, or they could have just clicked “install” and know nothing.
I wasn’t tanking anything out of context, I was just really confused why you would be addressing such changes in reply to my post. Just because I said something is doesn’t mean I think it ought be. You suggested changes to EvE, I did not suggest any changes, I’m not talking about making any changes. So, let me rephrase my reply: “Why do you think I’m talking about changes? Why would you think I’d want changes?”
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It just occurred to me…
If the popular definition of PVP differs from the more (internally) universal meaning in EvE, then might that be why any cited official documentation doesnt mention that phrase until well in?
I dont think it hides the fact there are fights and cut throat deals.
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It could be. At university I did work in philosophy of science and philosophy of religion and using comparative religions as an example (this is not for any sort of religious discussion) it was often the case that it was almost impossible to have discussions between various religions because the meaning of the same word being used by both sides was so different. Examples are words like “heaven” or “saved” within various Christian denominations.
Of course the denominations using the word, didn’t think that the hearer from the other denomination would misunderstand them, because they only thought of the word having their own meaning, and didn’t see things from the other side. The way these conversations could be more effective is if the confusing terms are just avoided, which might be what CCP has done in the official documentation.
When I was refering to what CCP is telling people, I was looking more at some of the tl;dr pieces of marketing or “starter packs” that CCP has offered. Not implying that you would misunderstand if you read everything CCP has ever published.
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Yes, this comes to mind .
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thou%20doth%20protest%20too%20much
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