The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value

Communications Center Out Of Pod Experience
681

That’s ok, the old LUNA is still around and will keep going. Kinda like Bitcoin forks that to this day still slowly.

And Bitcoin has… 105 fork projects in total. :smiley: Of which 74 are still well maintained. BTC printer goes Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Rofl. “But, but… they will fizzle out, unlike BTC” I guess I have to press X frequently and rapidly on my controller to “DOUBT” :smiley: So BTC has actually 74x2 million of “coins” however every coin is 100 million satoshi ‘coins’. I think I’m going to invest in silicon dioxide, which is becoming more scarce than BTC.

682

After all, this crypto thing is just numbers in computer, untapped potential really. :joy:

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683

So is fiat money. Physical cash is only like 10% of the money, the rest are numbers in a computer.

The difference is that with Bitcoin there is a fixed rule about how much new coins can be created and there is an absolute limit after which there will be no new coins anymore.

With fiat, the bank can just create new money by writing it into their database. If you go to a bank and you want credit for a home or something, they literally just write that money into existence the moment you get the credit.

This is why you don’t have interest on your savings anymore and instead pay the bank to give them your money. They don’t need you money to lend it to other people, they can just create new money, as much as they want.

I’m sorry, but I can’t take you serious anymore. We are really at a point where you seem to be completely out of arguments. It just makes zero sense what you just wrote…

684

He talks as if it’s a bad thing to earn at least $23k profit per BTC.

Anyone investing in BTC simply must understand what they are doing, also they must understand that it is risky if they decide to put their life savings into it. The advice you will get from sensible people who have a 100% understanding of BTC will always be: “Only invest what you can afford to lose” Whoever does lose a lot of money investing in any crypto or BTC will have ignored sensible people and listened to greedy people who will make money off your investment.

This has been the way of the world for a very long time, and just because BTC is now in the mix nothing will have changed, those greedy people still exist and they are ready to invest your money and not care if it fails.

685

When someone mentions how you failed to mention a drop from 60k to 30k in value, you will no longer discuss?
Ok, it is very inconvenient if it appears Bitcoin had it’s peak but that is just how it looks.
So your suggestion is to go back 10 years to invest in Bitcoin? Not sure if many people will be able to do that. But good luck.

Apparantly you failed to adress the amount of in your eyes ‘counterfeit’ bitcoin projects.

These are anoying points, I did not make them up and no one has some interesting counter. Well, you cpuld say “But end of this year it will go to 100k because the system decided to increase pollution to its product creation.” There is no reason to increment the difficulty other than to prolong the time where miners cannot be rewarded by BTC anymore. Will mining (supporting transactiond) be worth it then? Will the cost of transactions be acceptable? Yes, a good reason to delay that situation as long as possible.

686

You should give up trying to understand it. time travel isn’t possible and it’s not what Karak was suggesting, go back and re-read the points made then consider the current price of BTC and then compare that to the $900 dollars this man spent on each of his BTC, and then understand what profit was possible, I’m unsure why anything else would be relevant in the current convo here.

Hard forks have been explained to you in great detail. It’s your responsibility to further your understanding on it if you choose.

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687

Upward moves are based on fundamentals! I think they have a derogatory term for all downward moves: FUD.

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688

Hopefully the current price will be stable and rise higher as more sensible and non-greedy investors come onboard and more people use it for their daily financials. Hopefully we will see lots more people being more careful and investing smaller amounts in BTC which wouldn’t ruin their lives if anything should go wrong.

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689

Looking at the five last days, it’s apparent the boost has begun. A lot later than I assumed in my previous post, but inline with the “experts” posting “This time it will go to $100 000”. Only 3% below last year’s value.
I guess with the increase of cost for the miners (globally) the coin should also have more value as it’s getting more and more expensive to mine.

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Let’s see how equal it’s distributed:

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18.7% in Tax-free Kentucky :smiley:

14.0% in Texas
Deregulate the energy market, lol. “Deregulation was something akin to abolishing the speed limit on an interstate highway,” said Ed Hirs, an energy fellow at the University of Houston. “That opens up shortcuts that cause disasters.” Everything’s bigger in Texas. Including the number of power outages. Texas takes the number two spot for power outages in 2017 with 192 outages affecting 1.1 million people. Heatwaves and flooding caused the majority of the outages in Texas in 2017.

California is number one in outages, you should look up why, it’s very sad for people who live there (and can’t get out) but funny if you assume it’s some kind of parody of a very, very large insane asylum where the patients (inmates) ‘run’ it.

Orders for new ASICs – the specialty gear used to mint new bitcoin – show that tens of thousands more machines are due to be delivered in Texas… lol, and they are promoted as green. But yeah, it will take some time before they realize the ASICs are not bio degradeable . Not a problem for now, right? :smiley:

That aside, the holidays are coming and people will want to become Gorillionaires without working for it and Bitcoin is the way to go if you follow the social media’s storm of “Bitcoin will go over 100K!” laser eyes (don’t you go blind when a laser hits your eyes?) experts who have to point out that “THIS IS NOT FINANCIAL ADVISE” so they don’t get demonetized or banned.

690

The reason why they get so much Bitcoin miners in Texas is exactly because they want to make the grid more reliable. The reason why Texas has so much outages is because they are on their own grid, they can’t balance very well by importing or exporting energy. All the balancing has to be done with electricity producers and consumers in Texas.

Texas actually realized, that since Bitcoin miners can shutdown on a moments notice without any impact on the network, they are the ideal load to build up electricity over production that can be utilized in the event of a disaster. They have contracts with the miners for this. There are obviously other already existing industries they use for this as well, but they can’t react as fast and they usually create supply chain issues down the line if they can’t restart production within a day.

And the reason why this is promoted as green is because this highly dynamic load is actually a requirement to have in your grid if you want to increase the amount of highly fluctuating and weather depending energy sources like wind and solar. Having more Bitcoin miners on the grid will allow them to build out more green energy sources.

Here is an actual miner talking about this very point:

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691

Why? Miners cost are not a determining factor for a thing that you dont need. Only the demand is determining it. Gamblers need it. They will set the trends. They risk, they lose, they risk even more. They buy when its low, they buy when its high, they will be the only ones left holding bags, betting on the wrong horse.

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692

Investing a small humble amount in a digital currency because one has lost faith in the current fiat financial system is not gambling,

Using a digital coin because your own country’s currency isn’t worth much is not gambling. There are lots of factors at play here and as far as i can see many of these poor countries have been poor for a very long time. The manual labourer in El Salvador may choose to be paid in BTC, this isn’t gambling, it’s just someone trying to get paid for their works with a currency that holds it’s value.

I’m not sure why buying BTC as an investment is gambling, and then buying Euro’s, dollars or pounds for investment isn’t gambling. You should really have more complaints for fiat currencies than you do for digital ones based on the history of these fiat currencies.

If you have ultimate faith in fiat currencies and that the people controlling it will always do the right thing then you should go ahead and live that life and completely ignore BTC and other crypto.

Fiat Currency - Seems to appear out of nowhere, I’m unsure who makes the decision to print it, it’s not backed by anything. If too much is printed then the value goes down. Large amounts of interest are generated if it is printed and given to people struggling financially.

BTC - This currency is created by a unique computer process and the currency has a limit to the amount that will ever be created. If changes are to be made then all miners must agree before the change is made otherwise no change is made.

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693

It’s not that simple.

In September 2021, José Bonilla was one of the first citizens to sign up for a government-backed digital wallet that lets anyone use the cryptocurrency.
By February 2022, Bonilla’s list of complaints about Bitcoin was long: the only available Bitcoin ATM was too far away, the government helpline was slow, and the price was too volatile. One day, he lost a $25 transaction from a customer to technical issues and never heard back from the digital wallet’s customer service team. “I decided not to use it any more,” he said. Four months after the crypto conference, Bonilla, the shoe store owner, hadn’t heard of Bitcoin City or the Bitcoin bonds. He remained unconvinced by the cryptocurrency. The survey released by the country’s chamber of commerce in March found that only 3.6% of business owners said Bitcoin had helped with their sales.

“It’s basically just the big companies that are using it,” Bonilla said. “Between bitcoin and cash, I prefer that [customers] pay me in cash.”

Other businesses around Bitcoin Beach said they’d given up on Bitcoin and reverted to accepting only cash. “We were losing money because of the way the currency loses value,” said 21-year-old Axel Medina, who helps his family run a surf school and restaurant. “It was difficult to maintain our business like that.”

Cryptobros, 86% of the businesses contacted said they had never conducted a transaction using Bitcoin. (ref: Empresarios proyectan invertir en El Salvador pese a los retos que enfrenta el país | Cámara de Comercio e Industria de El Salvador )

Users could use the Chivo (it means ‘goat’ in Spanish but apparently it’s slang for ‘Cool’) Wallet to receive or send cryptocurrency funds — think Venmo or Paypal, but for Bitcoin.

In 2019, about 50% of the population was not online. Older people don’t have smartphones.

Even though Chivo is technically a private company, it is 99% owned by a state-owned company and funded by a $150 million public trust. In effect, the government would control its citizens’ keys. It’s a custodial wallet.

Why the hell is everything I dig up on BTC completely contrarian to the utopian stories we read above? Ok, the example is from a dictatorship but still…

Apparently people who dig too deep ( https://twitter.com/mxgxw_alpha/status/1432743513704259593 ) , get “informed and made clear they will not be spoken with anymore” in El Salvador too. lolz. :smiley:
El Salvador police investigate vocal critic of president's bitcoin plan | Reuters

When a dictator (who calls himself a dictator) speaks about how Bitcoin is a champion of freedom…
“…if Bitcoin continued to appreciate in value, El Salvador would reap the benefits and pay back the bondholders with interest.”

The industry is so good, you will also be excempt of any taxes… lol.
“Residents, he said, would pay no income tax, no capital gains tax (“Invest here, make all the money you want,” he said), no property tax, no payroll tax, and no municipal tax.”

Reality isn’t always what one hopes. I’m very sad, I had hopes for the poor people yet was sceptic. I guess BTC will better go to $100 000 now… :expressionless:

694

What next? Jail for saying bad things about bitcoin?

El Presidente is always right! Viva el Presidente! :joy:

695

Maybe they only contacted 7 businesses?

Hopefully all of the greedy investors who are trying to become a millionaire by next month will leave BTC alone from this point which will only leave sensible investors and people who have an everyday use for BTC. I don’t think anyone is interested in the guy who can buy 2 million worth of BTC only to sell it again next week, I seriously couldn’t care less for that type of investor and I believe that is what is ruining the perception of BTC.

Obviously nothing can be done to stop this type of trader so we have to put up with their antics. Billions of people investing/using just a little tiny bit of BTC will create a very strong foundation and stable price for BTC.

I’ve heard stories of people not having to make a 4 hour round journey just to pay a bill, using a BTC app on their phone makes it possible to pay the bill in a couple of minutes. Do I think that it runs this perfectly for everyone? No. There will always be technical issues or problems with any new type of system so there is much work to do on building a good level of tech support and insurances to cover people who lose money via a transaction gone wrong.

I’m still very positive, and I will say again, the kids born today will be the adults of tomorrow, meaning they will have a very good understanding of what BTC is. Maybe the kids growing up now might be able to design a better app to process BTC payments in 10 or 15 years time.

Also maybe the El salvadorians should only hold a small portion of BTC, so perhaps some retailers could request 5 or 10% of the transaction value be paid in BTC and the rest in Fiat? You know, just like how I am suggesting people only invest £2,000 instead of their £100k life savings in BTC or Crypto.

We have to look out for the manipulated value when it comes to BTC, the value this retailer used was partly made up of people like Bill Gates and Elon musk tweeting poorly thought out nonsense and greedy investors buying and selling to earn money quickly.

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696

Maybe, we will never know I guess. But please also look at my other points where I work towards pointing out that the International Business is winning and the local shops are loosing.

True, but the issue is that the small companies in El Salvador are having a lot of issues and can’t invest in an IT department like the large chains (who are generally controlled by Mexican owners) and the BTC implementation is a big advantage for the large chains to pull in the Bitcoin Tourists. That way the tourist’s revenue which goes up does not go to the small El Salvadorian businesses/individuals.

This is indeed an issue and the FED and other governmental oversight is required.

Your answers are very well made and tought out and you defend BTC in a very nice way.

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697

So what’s new?

There is a logical conclusion to all IT related problems, this tends to be what I find anyway. Some problems can take lots of investigation. In order for some apps to run certain functions need to run in the background on the phone or the firmware and the operating system may be too old and the phone is obsolete or not supported any longer.

In many situations it could be that certain operating system services aren’t started but because the user isn’t tech savvy they have no idea how to turn on the service. I think Bukele could provide lots of young people with remote/onsite tech support jobs here and keep them busy and off the streets where they are at risk from gangs and criminals.

Hopefully there will be campaigners demanding and putting pressure on Bukele help build such an infrastructure and provide more jobs.

I try to keep it real and and I have a good sense of logistics, I try not to ignore anything and consider facts. I’ll always have love for anything that is computerised and works in a rigid and logical way.

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698

First El Salvador, then whole world!

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700

I recently read the INCB report.

“According to the Drug Enforcement Administration of the United States, both Mexican and Colombian organized criminal groups are increasing their use of virtual currency because of the anonymity and speed of transactions.”

As a crypto-banker, how do you take action to ensure you are not processing their activities?