This is true. Bot banning seems like a credible possibility given the thousands there were.
I’m not convinced about the rest.
I am finding it a bit odd that people are saying that this war dec change failed when there had been no increase in active players. The objective was to reduce the loss of players to war decs.
I am also finding it odd that people are blaming the change to war decs for a reduction in player numbers when there are other factors in place like botting being so significant as to make people not want to bother in a competitive game. The high risk low reward in hisec where most casual players are and of course a perceived level of dominance in nullsec that results in a lot of blue standings and a lack of meaningful fights as such.
Also the war dec change has had a negative impact on making war deckers more focussed on meaningful hisec indy players. So they will still be losing players to war decs…
It is evident that we have lost war deckers to this change, the Edgy one for example but he had left before the change hit.
Oh well, I just hope CCP are doing a good job of analysing their data.
Not only was there no increase in active players, but it seems we are losing players faster since the change.
There ARE other factors to consider, however, with the case of bots demoralising the game, why the sudden change now? Why did we get a period of steady activity after alphas (and bots)?
With the case of hi-risk/low reward in hisec, the risk is less now than ever before and the rewards are largely the same (though maybe higher since Abyss). So why would this become a problem now? Same with blue standings in null. Why the sudden problem now?
The population of those that can be wardecced is significantly smaller. Industrial players can use a structure in a holding corp and keep their miners and haulers dec immune. I don’t understand how they are feeling any increased influence from wardecs than before.
And if they are and we’re still losing as many players, doesn’t that precisely mean the wardec change has not had the desired effect?
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Are you sure you can’t see that? I can see it as plain as day. I think it is quite obvious to be honest, but I get the impression that what is obvious to me is not so obvious to others.
Well let me try, hisec indy already cannot compete with nullsec in terms of margins, so if they start losing their structures that enable them to compete and this is their main income rather than mining or missions would they continue or give up? They have become a lot more obvious and people are going after them.
Yes there are other factors to consider, the bots is one where I think peoples perception of it getting out of hand is growing. I try to play in areas where the bot impact is less, however if I put up a structure I can be war decked by PIRAT who were put into such a dominant position by botting. Do I want to play with cheaters?
The risk is downplayed by a lot of players. Over the past month and a half the risk of having your freighter ganked (apart from burn Jita) went down a lot because Australian Excellence finally got bored. CODE are having a competition adding to risk and of course there are a lot of people going after indy corps in hisec, burning their structures. And the standard gankers on gates and at stations is always there and is unchanged, in fact I noticed more Tornado’s sitting off Jita 4-4 then I was seeing before. That is of course a feeling, though the reduction in freighter ganks due to the angry Aussie not playing is significant. I don’t think that the risk has reduced at all overall but as the next few months pan out and if the angry Aussie does not return then a slight decrease in risk is evident.
After the Goons pulled back we saw a mini collapse of PL, and then a number of people giving up because they were no longer top dogs and they did not have the will to fight it. I saw so many posts on Reddit of so called elite PL types throwing the towel in.
The war dec change was designed to stop the loss of a segment of the player base, CCP are the only ones who can tell us that. For me it would be the guys who want to mine and mission without being war decked out of the hubs and pipes. If the retention level of those improves then it would be a success. But that is only part of the issue and I was expecting the loss of a number of low effort war deckers.
I removed a couple of posts for being off-topic.
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No. You repeat this false thing again and again, I just repeat : you’re wrong.
That is just, logically, false.
According to you, constant progress in health care should produce an exponential increase in populations. Turns out there is an increases, but it is not exponential and actually in the countries with a high enough women education, the population is stable or decreasing - even when healthcare progress are still happening.
You are telling us the healthcare progress is now bad thing.
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No.
According to me, removing a major source of player losses should theoretically cause a positive shift in player retention. Not exponential, not big, not small, but probably something. What we got instead was an increase in the rate of losses.
Similar to this:
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constant increase is not increase.
So yes. According to you there should be a constant increase in population. There is not.
in this graph we see clearly that population in Europe is not increasing. However the healthcare progress are still happening there.
According to you, we SHOULD notice an increase in population in Europe every time there is an healthcare progress. We don’t, according to you again there is no healthcare progress.
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I think we can say conclusively that the wardec “band-aid” changes in December did not result in an increase of players, or player activity. Whether that is because the changes were not sufficient to attract more players, there are no players to attract, or that they did attract/keep more players, but that was offset by either players driven away by these changes, or just buried by unrelated changes in Eve’s population/activity numbers is impossible to say without more data.
But 100%, there is no observable increase in player numbers or activity from the public metrics on Dotlan and Eve-Offline provided by CCP since December. If anything, it is markedly down. It’s still too early to conclude anything, but that is evidence that perhaps just the existence of wars were not as detrimental to player retention or activity as some feared.
Regardless, this whole discussion is academic. We are going to get a devblog in days or weeks at most with details of the permanent solution. It will almost certainly be one that promotes PvP and player interaction in highsec, things that are known to correlate with increased player retention and engagement. Those changes and their impact on player retention are what the success of the wardec revamp will be judged on, not the temporary status quo we have today.
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Off topic sub thread ensues here, it gets worse as it continues; skip it unless you’re a glutton for random idiots, o/, arguing on the internet.
Firstly that graph is from 2011, secondly it shows the projected population numbers from that date, not the actual figures.
On the subject of increased healthcare, better healthcare generally means that people live longer, not that more people are born.
People who live in countries with poor healthcare tend to have more children to compensate for this; Africa for example has an historically horrendous infant mortality rate due to the lack of healthcare, which goes some way towards explaining why people there have tens of children instead of a couple; their children having a lesser chance of becoming adults.
Europe on the other hand has pretty good healthcare and an ageing population. People in Europe have less children because their children are far more likely to survive into adulthood.
Education also plays an important part in population growth/decline/remaining static.
Choose a better example for your “argument”, preferably one that isn’t debunked so easily.
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What theory is that? Thats not theory, thats your feeling from observing the player graphs.
You did not debunk anything.
Praise James!
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How about their false argument that increased healthcare should lead to population growth?
Increased healthcare should lead to population growth if the number of newborns would stay on the level as before increased heathcare, what is sometimes the case. Thats complex issue. For population growth there are also other modifiers, but they dont have anything to do with increased healthcare.
Anderson and you seem to hold the same opinion: that its not actually always true that increased healthcare should lead to population growth.
You just said whats known. Its not debunking. You actually agree with Anderson, and me.
You’re correct, it is a complex subject; population growth and decline being affected by many factors such as immigration, infant mortality rates, access to contraception, education etc.
The introduction of advanced healthcare may well lead to an increase in population in the first instance, but post introduction the increase in population appears to decline with time; most of the decline seems to be in birthrates, which suggests that a decrease in infant mortality leads to people having less children, there being no need to have as many because their children have a greater chance of reaching adulthood.
This is complex too. All things are just complex.
There is always a lot of answers, not one really.
War changes are posted, entire argument is bunk.
Neutral reps is going concordoken.
War free social corps and station holding corps are here to stay.
Wars will cost 100 mil.
Two station bashing loopholes are being closed.
If you’re a wardeccer… best get on your best station bashing gear…
I don’t see this delivering PvP to noobs…
I had high hopes that these changes would bring me and my T1 frigate back to highsec.
It’s not meant to be.
Indeed, and those answers will change from person to person. I’m one of those that has no children, despite being in my late 40’s. My answer to people asking why no kids is that I’d be a shitty parent due to reasons.
It’s not that I don’t like kids, I love kids because they rarely judge, and all of my friend’s kids love me, because I treat them as people not children; I just don’t have the long term patience, or the mentality to be a successful parent.
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The entry bar for PvP has just been raised, again.
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Jonah, why can’t more of the pve crowd be like you?
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