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[Stephan_Pappotte]

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[QuakeGod]

Don’t field a structure if you can’t defend it…

[Altesse_Tsukaya]

What do you even mean ‘stealing a core’.

You cannot un-core a station unless you have the rights to do so from the corp, so it looks more like a corp wide problem than a gameplay issue.

[Pernicious_Cheese]

*Doesn’t want anyone to steal cores.

…

*Tells the Eve community about it.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Stephan_Pappotte

I just hate the fact that you can transfer it into a dst without the dst having to go suspect as well

You can gank the DST. Even better, you can merely have the appearance of being able to gank the DST by having gank ships on the field, or taking out the structure with disposable ships that can double as ganking ships in a pinch. Because let’s face it, you’re mostly taking about abandoned structures, as in cases of shooting structures that result in a fight, a sub-1B-ISK core is probably the least of your concerns.

Maybe try bumping the ninja DST?

@Stephan_Pappotte

I don’t mind to have to aggress suspects to prevent or try to get the core back

Of course you don’t; you have a massive fleet on the field, and you’d have one player in a hauler be flagged to all of you.

@Stephan_Pappotte

Or CCP can make it where all cores require a freighter to scoop, that would probably be ideal since most core thief’s don’t fly freighters.

You want to turn a system in which both sides (basher and ninja looter) have some risk into a system in which the basher has zero risk and the ninja looter has all the risk? I don’t see how that’s a good idea.

@Stephan_Pappotte

Theirs a saying in eve, don’t fly what you can’t afford to loose, suspects that steal have absolutely 0 risk

No they don’t. Their actual hauler can get bumped or ganked.

@Stephan_Pappotte

Theirs a saying in eve, don’t fly what you can’t afford to loose, suspects that steal have absolutely 0 risk, they can buy a 100k isk shuttle or get a free rookie ship and steal billions worth of ore from people who can mine or steal from structure bashes. What about the fast ninja loot thief’s? They steal and dock right away, o risk. They should not be able to dock right away until a limited timer expires given locals the ability to kill the suspect and recover some loot while trying to survive as well, promotes pvp like you want CCP.

I like how you shoehorn the “poor miners” into your argument to make it seem like you’re the victim, despite being a member of one of the most powerful pure PvP groups in the game.

I’m actually kind of surprised that a BF member would make a whine thread like this, considering that I’ve been told you essentially have to be a Juche PvP god capable of enough skill and firepower to be able to fight off entire alliances by yourself, just to be considered for an interview.

[God_Emperor_Kane]

Using a shuttle to drag items from a container, wreck, “something” is not a structure issue where people can steal the cores once the structure is exploded.

This is a general suspect mechanic issue for all looting type gameplay where the shuttle alt can go suspect by dragging something into a DST without the DST going suspect. And then when you pop the suspect shuttle the DST still moonwalks away.

I think what our friend is asking for is looking at having the DST inherit the suspect flag. This would also very much impede gankers as well as they use the same mechanic to move items into into an uncloaked DST.

And for those that will inherently say Gank a DST…

I will also assume people that make that suggestion does not know how much EHP a DST can have and might need a reality check.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@God_Emperor_Kane

I will also assume people that make that suggestion does not know how much EHP a DST can have and might need a reality check.

Then the sensible solution would be to ask CCP to reconsider giving DSTs the potential to have like 300,000 EHP, instead of asking for the system to be changed into one where it’s 100% impossible for anyone to threaten the dropped core with theft.

[God_Emperor_Kane]

Actually I have seen DST go suspect, and then still moonwalk away using the cloak warp trick.

You can get more than 300k EHP btw. It is also not always a DST, we use tech II transports for bait with a lot more EHP.

I think the primary issue here is not the fact that people can steal, the mechanic of being able to use a shuttle to move loot into a DST or any transport alt and just sit there to get popped seems cheap, but then again so are many mechanic in EVE.

I also think general discussions is the wrong place for this. Player Ideas section is the place.

[Commander_XXX]

OR you could change it so that you can only transfer things from your own ship into other ships, rather than drag from another ship. This would eliminate shuttle dragging (unless it’s 5m3 or less) and also add some time for the suspect to be killed.

I also agree with suspect flags following stolen goods around though. If my buddy steals a diamond and gives it to me, I still get arrested. Why should it be any different in a space game with immortal characters…

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@God_Emperor_Kane

Actually I have seen DST go suspect, and then still moonwalk away using the cloak warp trick.

That just sounds like terrible planning to me. If a neutral DST can perform a transfer theft and cloak up, then surely an alt in an interceptor can perform the necessary maneuvers even faster to prevent the DST from cloaking up at all.

I just don’t see how making the DST (or whatever) suspect would be an equitable system. Right now, at least it’s a competition, since both sides are able to get the core. In fact, it’s simpler for the bashers, as they only need to perform one step (looting) instead of two steps (looting and transfer).

You can’t assist a suspect proactively, so a situation in which the ninja DST becomes suspect from the transfer would result in its death essentially 100% of the time. Because no one is able to threaten the 40 Leshaks you have on the field that would shoot the suspect DST, even if they wanted to.

If CCP makes this sort of change, it would have to be accompanied by something crazy like making all citadel bashers go suspect by default, or they’ll just make core drops free for all by default, so be careful what you wish for.

[God_Emperor_Kane]

Once again, you don’t seem to play the game enough. I am happy to give all the in and outs of the EVE mechanics but the forums is the wrong place.

You can insta warp with battleships doing the cloak warp trick properly.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@God_Emperor_Kane

Once again, you don’t seem to play the game enough.

That might be the case, but I also don’t ask CCP for handouts while sitting in a premier group that has a virtual monopoly on high-sec PvP.

@God_Emperor_Kane

You can insta warp with battleships doing the cloak warp trick properly.

But how can you cloak if there’s someone right on top of you? If a neutral hauler is able to get close enough to the core, then a disposable T1 frigate can do it even faster to prevent the DST from cloaking. It can even proactively tackle it if necessary.

If I’m wrong, feel free to explain how, as that’s integral to discuss the merits of the idea in this thread.

[Faylee_Freir]

Still takes an entire cycle of the MWD. It’s not like you cloak and mwd then instantly decloak and warp off. There’s plenty of time for a ship to decloak the DST.

The bashing fleet could also preemptively lock up the DST to prevent cloak before the structure even pops.

[God_Emperor_Kane]

I know how that works and we do that often.

But people don’t always have inty with them. Even then getting on them to decloak before they are able to warp also requires luck. And we do have guys that excel in doing just that.

[Faylee_Freir]

I guess what I was saying is that you don’t even need an interceptor. If an Orca or DST shows up you can simply lock them up ahead of time to prevent a cloak.

That’s all besides the point though lol.

[Dracvlad]

@Stephan_Pappotte

I just hate the fact that you can transfer it into a dst without the dst having to go suspect as well,

Interesting…

[Faylee_Freir]

@Dracvlad

Interesting…

Stephan isn’t a ganker so it’s not really all that interesting for him to want the mechanic nerfed.

[Aiko_Danuja]

I think nerfing the DST transfer is a bad idea, as it would affect areas of gameplay outside your immediate concern (the quantum core).

Increasing the m3 size of the core is a more reasonable solution, which would certainly address your concern.

Also, if someone is using a shuttle, you could gank it…

@Stephan_Pappotte

get a free rookie ship and steal billions worth of ore from people who can mine

Nobody is doing this.

@Stephan_Pappotte

What about the fast ninja loot thief’s?

While I am certainly not a fan of loot ‘thieves’, I also think that you should be able to click as quickly. Some people click very fast, and that’s a skill. Some people are using bots, and CCP should find a way to address that.

[Jambi]

@Aiko_Danuja

I think nerfing the DST transfer is a bad idea,

i’m not the least bit concerned about carebear tears, but as i learned about the ganking process i never understood how that wasn’t nerfed!

i guess the only reason is is for gankers! because if it were nerfed it would be much harder to loot, but this way has always seemed way too easy to me! again nothing against gankers but only seems fair that if you are receiving billions in stolen loot there should be some consequence imo!

but hey the game is on the decline as it is, further nerfs will only hurt even more!

[Shipwreck_Jones]

But ganking a DST is super hard. Wait… I mean, ganking needs a nerf… Err… okay, I got it. What I need is for CCP to target nerfs at my enemies with surgical precision.

To OP:
Here’s some useful advice for real. If someone is giving me trouble, and I don’t know how to counter it, I will try doing what they do for a while. Its funny how trying to do something yourself will make you see all the ways things can go wrong, and make all of their weaknesses suddenly jump out at you.

And, on a side note, this has also led me to realize on more than one occasion that what they were doing was harder than they made it look. This, in combination with learning their weaknesses, made me ultimately realize that things were actually better balanced than I had initially thought.

Funny how much people think things are unbalanced when they look at it entirely from one perspective.