Tiered War costs and allied conditions proposal

[Black_Pedro]

@Zircon_Dasher

What about people who just want to shoot others and take their stuff? I assume your OK with that too, right?

Of course. Shooting someone and taking their stuff is another thing that Eve is about.

In this case though, I think both things overlap quite nicely for the hub campers. They get both loot and to claim ownership of space, selling access, or at least potential disruption of access, to clients.

[Zircon_Dasher]

Right. So why bring up “king of X” intentions inn response to Oreb?

He (apparently) thinks players who just want to shoot&loot are playing the game wrong.

There is no point in arguing with people who have fallen into such an anti-sandbox mindset like that. At least not those who are not brand new players

[MinerArt]

@Black_Pedro

If there is any problem here with trade-hub camping, it is that it is too much without commitment. This is a general problem of the game, not just confined to wars, but if you are going to claim some space, you probably should have something in that space that someone can come along and shoot to try to force a fight. Otherwise evasion is path of least resistance and there is too much evasion in this game.

This is why war is not war. Zero risk for added risk to others and no benefit. We basically have bribe concord to not concordoken you vs specific targets. Those targets can then just turn around and make it so that your “specific targets” doesn’t include them anymore instantly and without penalty.

We have no effort to add risk and no effort to remove it with no benefits or penalty for either side.

War decs are fluffy bunny poops.

[Oreb_Wing]

@Black_Pedro

camping takes that to ugly levels where docking ring warriors use crazy bling fits (supported by large amounts of neutral logi) they know they can take off the field whenever they want which sort of makes a mockery of the idea of committing to a fight

Camping lanes requires a very low effort. You can even employ scripts to fire at your special colored war targets and not even put your hands on the computer. neutral logi is just the cherry on top of that lame cupcake. You should get a very high security penalty for remote assisting any person that has an active duel timer or active war declaration which doesn’t include you. As much as you would for shooting a neutral pod.

[Black_Pedro]

@MinerArt

This is why war is not war. Zero risk for added risk to others and no benefit. We basically have bribe concord to not concordoken you vs specific targets. Those targets can then just turn around and make it so that your “specific targets” doesn’t include them anymore instantly and without penalty.

I don’t totally agree. If a fleet shows up to bash your Citadel, they definitely are putting themselves at risk. I think wars used to bash structures are the least broken (although often the most boring) type of war.

But when it comes to those aggressors that never leave the docking ring? I’ll agree with you completely. That is risk- and commitment-aversion of the highest level and some tweak is in order to limit that ability to evade a counter-attack.

If you undock to enforce your blockade, you should not be able to just dock up when the tables start to turn against you. I know, there are things one can try to catch out such hub humpers, but they are so arcane and outside the realm of “normal” Eve combat that non-specialists have no chance.

[Zircon_Dasher]

@Black_Pedro

you should not be able to just dock up when the tables start to turn against you. I know, there are things one can try to catch out such hub humpers, but they are so arcane and outside the realm of “normal” Eve combat that non-specialists have no chance.

So if I get camped into a station by a group who counters whatever I have, I should be forced to either

1. feed ships
2. stay docked/ log off

That’s some compelling game play!

[Black_Pedro]

@Zircon_Dasher

So if I get camped into a station by a group who counters whatever I have, I should be forced to either

feed ships
stay docked/ log off

That’s some compelling game play!

How can you get camped into a station in highsec? You can always just warp away with your pod and come back in whatever you want.

You should however not be able to hang about in front of a station, picking off unaware targets with the certainty you can just dock up if someone shows up to fight you. You should be somewhat committed to the fight you started, and not rely on your armada of pocket neutral logi to just dock up your hyper-blinged out ship when any opposition appears.

[Zircon_Dasher]

Maybe I misunderstood you. Are you saying that:

If you are in highsec, you should not be able to dock (after waiting out the timer) after aggressing other players.

The way it was written sounded more general to include ALL station games

[Black_Pedro]

I am open to discussion on the details, but I think the current Upwell mechanics are a reasonable compromise: if you are actively pointed by an opponent you should not be able to dock.

[Zircon_Dasher]

@Black_Pedro

if you are actively pointed by an opponent you should not be able to dock.

So, now its not even about your being impotent wrt killing aggressive players on the station. You want anyone you can point to be unable to dock.

Then I refer back to my previous statement. That’s some compelling game play right there! Can’t wait

[Black_Pedro]

@Zircon_Dasher

Then I refer back to my previous statement. That’s some compelling game play right there! Can’t wait

I am confused. These mechanics are already in the game. Are you asserting they aren’t working as CCP intended when they added them to the game for the very purpose I suggest?

I have’t heard any complaints about them. Maybe you have some stories about how they have failed?

[Zircon_Dasher]

@Black_Pedro

These mechanics are already in the game

Wait…so npc stations are mechanically identical to citadels that I own? I must have missed that in the patch notes

[Oreb_Wing]

I’m pretty sure you can still dock in a citadel while you are locked or even pointed. You might be talking about the tethering.

[Zircon_Dasher]

@Oreb_Wing

I’m pretty sure you can still dock in a citadel while you are locked or even pointed. You might be talking about the tethering.

If #points exceeds ship warp core, no dock.

[Noragen_Neirfallas]

I know several groups who used to think this was true until they started trading hyper blinged ships for bait drakes.