Factional Civil War

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
1

Nullsec has power over space, give power over war to the militias!

Allow enlisted corporations to declare war for free on any corporation related to the same warzone, without the need to anchor any POS.

SHORT EXPLANATION FOR FIVE YEAR OLDS:
My vision for this is that attackers and defenders wouldn’t need an upwell structure. The only requirement for the new war declaration system would be having ties to the warzone. It’s quite similar to the old system, but now it’s confined to groups that are already engaged in perpetual conflict, as they are part of faction warfare

Fully enlisted corporations can wardec and assist any corporation tied to the warzone. Corporations with only ties to the warzone cannot attack, they can only be assisted.

Corporations without full enlistment but with structures in the warzone, or corporations with any Upwell structures anywhere that have individually enlisted members, should be wardecced and assisted by fully enlisted corporations.

Simple as that.

LONG EXPLANATION RICH IN DETAILS:
For example, if you’re in Cadmil, you can declare war on to any corporation from the same warzone and offer assistance to any Cadmil corporation . Also wardec any already wardeccable corporations who own a POS and also have enlisted members through direct enlistment. Also, include wardeccing the NPC corporation from your own faction.

For the people who don’t know, you can enlist:

  1. The entire corporation/alliance
  2. Pilots can enlist individually through direct enlistment

Follow this line of thought of “corporations related to the warzone” and like that we can do this:

  1. Enlisted corporations or alliances from any of the three factions within the same warzone can be wardecced without having a POS.
  2. Wardec the NPC enlisted corporations (State Protectorate, FDU, TLIB, 24th, GuriC, MZ) from your warzone.
  3. Wardec the corporations or alliances with enlisted pilots through direct enlistment that also have a POS, they are already wardeccable anyway in today’s system. Do not force fully enlisted corporations to anchor something just to wardec such targets.
  4. Offering assistance to non militia corporations when those corporations have HQs in the same empire as your militia or in the same warzone. Let the militias defend the people from their own empire.
  5. Wardec any corporation who anchors a structure in the warzone. Yes, let the enlisted militia corporation who has 5 algos alts wardec anyone who anchors anything in the warzone.
  6. Wardec any corp that has enough direct enlisted members and overall bad standings with any of empires of the same warzone. This is for wardeccing those farmy seagull corps who keep running sites day and night and cheesing the system, let me park a battleship by the beacon and smartomb every unfitted Atron that takes gate and I don’t want to suffer any standings penalty for that. CCP could have a take on this and define what constitutes a farmy seagull corp, they are aware enough of this Sometimes such corps have 5 alts in Minmil and 5 in Galmil at the same time, the corporation itself is not enlisted, and they contribute nothing to the fight, they just farm and annoy people. Let the militias smartbomb them all, pod everybody.

Make it free, make it 14 days and renewable for 14 days, no fees involved. I’m defending my empire, and I don’t receive payouts in ISK, nor will I pay in ISK. Let me roleplay the reason why the empire itself has tasked me with declaring war on these targets as part of a secret operation for the empire.

What we need is to remove the obstacles CCP has placed to protect groups unrelated to us in faction warfare.

3 Likes
2

The structure requirement to be vulnerable to war decs never should have been added.

The war hq was all that was needed to “fix” the issues

2 Likes
3

What’s the “War HQ”?

4

In order to declare war on another corp you need to designate an unwell structure as the war hq. If the defenders destroy it the war ends.

All the needed to to to fix the lopsided nature of hs war decs was to require the war hq and for that hq to be the same one for all your wars.

Defenders always have a way to end the war and the more groups you target the easier it is for them to all end their wars.

All the other “fixes” were needles and killed a lot of the hs activities and playstyles. Now rather than merc corps or war Dec corps you have hs gankers and structure hunters

2 Likes
5

So if I understand this correctly, rather than being able to designate multiple (one structure per WarDec) - they’d have to use the same one (one structure regardless of how many WarDecs).

Yeah, I can see how that might currently be abused… Structures still suck a** though (compared to POS).

6

The current system isn’t really abused. It’s more or less just not interacted with.

7

So having one (1) structure would fix this?

8

Not requiring the defending Corp to have a structure at all would fix this.

Basically attackers need a structure solves the biggest issues with the old system.

Having 90% of hs corps not immune to war decs brings the content back.

And importantly for this sub fixed one of if not the largest issues with fw since the war dec changes

9

My vision for this is that attackers and defenders wouldn’t need an upwell structure. The only requirement for the new war declaration system would be having ties to the warzone. It’s quite similar to the old system, but now it’s confined to groups that are already engaged in perpetual conflict, as they are part of faction warfare

What we need is to remove the obstacles CCP has placed to protect groups unrelated to us in faction warfare.

10

So in a nutshell:

• To perform a WarDec, you need to designate one (1) structure as your “WarHQ”.
• You can WarDec any corporation (with or without a structure), but you still need a structure.

That about sum it up?

11

I’m a little slow on the uptake, so it took me a bit to understand what you were trying to accomplish with this proposal. Once I got it, though, I think it’s needlessly complicated and way too unbalanced.

Not sure how long you’ve been around, but under the old system, any non-NPC corp or alliance could declare war on any other non-NPC corp or alliance, just by paying a few million ISK. NPC corps offered members safety from war in exchange for an 11% tax rate. Forming a small corp to avoid taxes used to be a meaningful risk vs. reward decision.

The reason for the current system is that the old one was being abused. Wardec corps would wardec (mostly) indy corps for easy ambush kills. If the indies reshipped and tried to fight back, the wardec corps would simply dock up and wait them out. When the indies went back to mining, the wardec corps come out again to hunt. Lacking the means to effectively fight back in such a scenario, the indy guys would either dock up for a week, or drop corp until the war was over. Some would just logout and not come back. That’s how wardeccing went from a content-driver to a harrassment mechanism. And mainly because it was just too easy to declare war.

CCP (incorrectly, IMO) decided that to be eligible to dec or be dec’d, your corp had to own a structure. While this stopped the wardec harrassment, it also left a backdoor open. Corps/alliances didn’t want to be war eligible, but they also didn’t want to stop owning structures. So corps with structures just moved their assets into holding corps and insulated their members from war threats while still having access to the services citadels provide. When that became the new status quo, hisec wars became mostly pointless.

IMO, @Lugh_Crow-Slave’s approach is simple, and yet it makes much more sense. Bring back war eligibility for everyone. No corp or alliance should be safe from wardecs except NPC corps. But neither should any corp or alliance be able to spam wardecs for a paltry amount of ISK. Requiring that the attacker have a war HQ (and only one war HQ, for all wars) adds balance to wardeccing. It makes the attacker put meaningful skin in the game (assets that they could lose), and it gives defenders a way to end the war if they’re willing to fight. It also allows multiple smaller corps to gang up against a common aggressor.

This would provide actual hisec war content without (or with minimal) misuse/abuse.

1 Like
12

I’m not necessarily opposed to this. NPC corporations still afford some shelter.

13

so right now, structures that are not freeports cannot be found and have to be probed down. so if the suggestion is to just have a HQ, and since wars mean nothing outside of hisec, the HQ would have to be in hisec and cannot be hidden and cannot have access revoked, so that anybody can see or find it especially if a wardec is currently on the table…

1 Like
14

Yes, exactly

15

You can still have access revoked. But the location of the structure (system) should be viewable from the war Dec screen and yes the requirement of it being in hs should remain.

You do not have to probe down a structure you don’t have access to. It just doesn’t appear on your overview. You can still see it in space from anywhere in system and warp to it

16

Maybe with @Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras’s addition, you should make a proposal to the CSM? Mick has been fairly good at getting some things implemented.

17

I wouldn’t even know the proper way to do that.

I’m pretty sure war hqs already need to be in HS and i thought their location was already given to defending corps. If that’s not true then yes he’s right it should be. And you don’t need to probe down structures. They just don’t appear on your overview of you don’t have access.

18

So with this change, do we address the 1000-lb Gorilla in the corner? (Ganking + WarDecs = a tad oppressive).

19

The reason ganking groups exploded was because of the war Dec changes. They existed before but they weren’t as wide spread. A lot of the players that could no longer war Dec moved into or formed ganking groups.

With war decs restored you would probably see some reduction in ganking groups but the culture is so strong now I’m not sure you can put that genie back.

If you check my old alliance in game (guardians of the Morrigan) you’ll see when i say war decs were never truly oppressive I’m speaking from experience as a defender.

However this would solve what was the most oppressive part of war decs. And that was the very one sided nature of them always being on the attackers terms. They always got to choose when to fight and when to end the war.

War HQs solved this issue even in their current iteration. The problem is they were never given a chance before war eligibility was added largely killing the war Dec community.

Ultimately though war decs and ganking are only as oppressive as you made them. Bad ceos in hs have a big part to play in not teaching new players how to avoid them. And honestly I’m not sure that’s a problem that can really be fixed.

20

That’s not necessarily a deal breaker - just something to keep in-mind.