bye bye…you’re just yet another garbage troll shitting-up the forums…
Ah, the Trump school of logic
Anyway, back before the troll entered…
Battleships do need to be re-worked - they don’t really have a proper place in the game at the moment, which is sad
I’d say that is in part due to limited and poor application compared to other ship types encroaching on what might have been their ‘area’ - so more specifically, BS need:
- distinct role(s)
- better manoeuvrability generally
- a place in the rock-paper-scissors line up, if CCP want to fix that again (since they broke it)
- Carriers (and capitals generally) need to be looked at again and re-iterated
Battleships are meant for rolling holes. Thats there place.
But on a more serious note, the issue is if your going for a full on assualt capital shipd are far superior and if your going on a fast roam cruisers work better. BS were never really meant to catch smaller faster ships, more intended to hold the field in a fight, but again cap ships heavily out do them in this area.
I just want to whelp a bunch of battleships and have a chance of killing a few things… sad panda
The solution isn’t to make battleships stronger. Supported battleships already kill caps really easily (though suffer against supercaps, which no realistic amount of tank buffs will fix). Ironically, a high dps HAC will do a far better job, especially after the nerfs to (super)carrier application, because they’re just as tough as a battleship, do almost as much damage, and are WAY harder to hit.
The solution is to reduce capital ship engagement profiles further, to make them basically never a good choice against subcaps.
Consider these engagement scenarios:
3 frigates vs 1 battleship. Unless the battleship is gimmick fit, the battleship’s going to lose.
3 frigates vs 1 cap. The cap might be able to outlast, but it’s going to have absolute ■■■■ for application if it can hit them at all. Active tanked frigates will easily survive the encounter, even if it’s going to take forever to actually kill it.
Once you start increasing the tank on battleships, you start throwing all of these other scenarios out of whack. Remember that nullsov powerblocs all have at least one battleship doctrine. Most have a number of them… brawlers, alpha strikes, and boosh-sniping.
Meanwhile, you’ve failed to address the real failings of battleships:
- They’re far too slow (on grid, getting into warp, warping, and getting out of warp, all types of mobility)
- Their tracking generally makes them one-trick-ponies without support, but said support immediately becomes the primary by the hostile fleet to neuter the battleships
- They’re 100% guaranteed to get bombed, waterboarded, or otherwise ■■■■■■ with by hostile forces
- Their scan res sucks balls, which means that they’re only going to be useful when you’re trying to slug it out
The order that I listed them is my preference on buffs to bring them to a state of higher usage.
Thanks, that is a good summation! - no, not good, just damn right.
The real question on whether something needs to be buffed (or nerfed) is how much a ship is being utilized in the game not necessarily is it useful for PvP? If we buff a ship without taking this into account- then we will end up with a super ship class that makes all other ship classes obsolete.
If the OP wants to buff battleships to be better in PvP- I could agree to it, IF there is a corresponding nerf that makes battleships LESS useful in other areas (such as running level 4 missions).
For those youngins that were never in a battleship fleet and talk out of an alternative orfice, an Armageddon fleet was awesome,! That is what would go into a system, kill the POS Defences, take on the reaction fleet, and then provide guard for caps that would come in to kill the POS.
A battleship fleet when done right, would kill Carriers and Dreads if they did not have their act together!
People complain about capitals, they vomit about Stuka fleets, then all CCP has to do is improve the battleship with more armor, faster lock, and better weapons, then watch the adjustment occur!
Personally, if they were just more fun to use, that would do me fine.
They are slow and boring, but then, arent they supposed to be? Id probably buff large turrets in some manner.
Missile BBs are fairly flexible as they are.
FLAKS! eve need FLAKS… there’s no defence against missiles. Sacrifice DPS or tank to mount flak cannons Wich can intercept missiles ( and why not big projectile/hibrid ammo?)
Defender Missiles used to be a thing. Then they took them out of high(?)
What was the deal with that anyway?
What purpose would that serve outside of handing cerb/jackdaw fleets though? Missiles are already pretty much in last place in terms of damage application because unlike everything else they dont apply instantly because of flight time. Sure you could use them on citadels too but they don’t really do enough to worry about.
Your Flak is your defender missiles for killing bombs because those do get used, and to great effect. and are way more dangerous when they reach your fleet than a few cruise missiles or Heavies.
Just adding you could use them to Neuter the Leviathan and the Phoenix, but thats as niche as niche comes
Don’t forget that they cold intercept some projectiles too( all except energy stuff) so not only missiles
If caps were not allowed in low they would also be used for killing structures.
The real problem with battleships is they are a “lesser cap” in all respects.
Missiles are actually very good, they have some of the best ranges even for their short range varients, cerberus can hit out past 40km with HAMs. On top of that they are almost garunteed to hit with a few exceptions. Turrets are literally hit or miss, with variences in damage for glancing wrecking etc hits. Turrets long range also has worse tracking where as missiles exp rad and vel is actually better on their long range varients. Its basiclly the exact opposite between missles and turrets in these aspects.
Nerf large weapon application (tracking, explosion mechanics). (Will have to give application bonuses to Attack BC and Bombers to not ■■■■ them).
Battleships can fit 4 of the large weapon they currently use, but with double damage, and 4 medium weapons of the secondary type with 1.5x damage, but with application penalties to both.
So a Raven would get 4x launchers and 4x turrets. It would get 2x damage bonus to large so it’s equivalent to 8, and 1.5x to medium so it’s equivalent to 6. So it would apply battleship DPS with large weapons and DPS between cruiser and battlecruiser level with medium. It can now hit up or down to cruisers but without support (webs/paints, remote tracking etc) it couldn’t apply for ■■■■.
Give BS some of the mobility of Mauraders but no bastion and not as much EHP. Maybe a reduced CD on micro jumps or ability to warp under 150km.
Now BS have more combat range but require support to balance it, can move around the field better, and can always swap their secondary weapons for more utility highs.
So they are infact in naval terms “Pre-Dreadnoughts”
Thats pretty funny.
But I like it
No, go away.