Titan May Be The Key To Sol System Colonization


(Draugr Bennington) #1

Titan’s nearly endless oceans would be able to provide liquid hydrogen for thousands of years for space travel.

This is an idea for a methane to hydrogen fuel and rocket system that would take advantage of the methane oceans on Titan.

First the system would produce its own methane gas by using cow manure and other biomass on Earth that creates methane gas through methanogenesis.
Methanogenesis or biomethanation is the formation of methane by microbes known as methanogens. Organisms capable of producing methane have been identified only from the domain Archaea, a group phylogenetically distinct from both eukaryotes and bacteria, although many live in close association with anaerobic bacteria. The production of methane is an important and widespread form of microbial metabolism. In most environments, it is the final step in the decomposition of biomass.
The methane gas is collected and then converted into methanol in a second stage. A third stage purifies the methanol into liquid methane. The liquid methane is then stored in containment tanks prior to being into a pure methane gas via a solid proton-conducting electrolyte device.
Another stage then converts the methane gas into hydrogen gas. The sixth stage also generates waste heat that is used to heat water for use elsewhere on the ship or planetary facility.
Stage seven converts the hydrogen gas into liquid hydrogen that is then stored in tanks prior to being used as the main fuel for the rocket engine.
Because there is always excess cow manure and other biomass that is readily available the initial methane production system would be fueled by cow and other livestock manure from Earth.
Generating the necessary cow manure would be easy seeing as how countries like India have a “Non-aggressive pact with cattle”. Indian Cattle Manure could bought from India to help boost their space program as well as their economy.
Cattle could also be raised to feed poorer nations like North Korea and Africa that generate nearly an infinite source of biomass.
Once near Titan an orbital refueling station would fill the Liquid Methane storage tanks of the ship up for continued travel between Titan and Earth or Titan and outer solar system destinations. The liquid methane would come from the nearly endless liquid methane oceans of Titan. Once the the liquid methane storage tanks had been filled the ship would continue on its route deeper into the Sol system or return back to Earth.Once in Earth orbit the ship would be resupplied with cow manure and then continue its route from Earth orbit.


(Draugr Bennington) #2

Believe it or not all of these systems that are part of the fuel generation system above are real and are in use in various energy production systems around the world.


(Veine Miromme) #3

You might want to double-check the current Titan probes propulsion systems and their method of approval.
For some reason, certain countries do not accept to be fed as poorer Nations, or like poorer Nations.
Their method seems safer than the new one by a few years if not decenies, perhaps not centuries yet.


(Aergri Evingod) #4

Two point due to a visit of a Biogas-site:
Biomass needs to be mixed through constantly to have an enduring biogas production unless the OP wants compost, for this archemedian screws are employed and those need to be anticorrosive.

And hydrogen needs something that oxides it for combustion.

In all other Points sounds interesting.


(Yiole Gionglao) #5

You know that there are easier ways to have methane and hydrogen onboard a spaceship, do you?

(FAI, just launch the substance itself, rather than launch 100x more mass just to manufacture the stuff in space).


(Do Little) #6

The most powerful chemical fuel is monatomic or metallic hydrogen with a specific impulse around 3 times that of current engines. It doesn’t need an oxidizer - the hydrogen ions combine to form molecular hydrogen releasing energy. The obvious problem is how do you store the stuff and control the energy release but, we live in an era of designer molecules and I suspect it’s only a matter of time before someone figures it out.

For methane (a.k.a. natural gas) the largest reserves are stored in clathrates (hydrates) in the arctic, antarctic and on the ocean floor - be a long time before we need to go to Titan looking for methane. The danger with this stuff is that global warming could cause them to destabilize, releasing their methane into the atmosphere and creating a runaway greenhouse.


(Veine Miromme) #7

I’ll have to check this out.
What can we do if we have a waypoint on Jupiter Saturn Mars and other places like that, as far as space production with Robotics?


(Do Little) #8

The easiest way to colonize a solar system is using O’Neill colonies - much easier than terraforming a planet. Likewise, it’s a lot easier to get raw material from moons and asteroids with shallow gravity wells - launch cargo pods by linear accelerator. Goods can travel by Hohmann transfer orbits - minimum delta-V. People will want to move around somewhat faster.

People who worked on these concepts back in the 1970’s thought we could build the first colony by 2000, and maybe we could have if the political will had been there. Technology in general and material science in particular have advanced a lot since then.


(Veine Miromme) #9

Colonization with humans is not the same as using robots without humans.
There is no risk of human dying in space, so that is a big security problem risk solved right there.
2nly, many things can be done and prepared with it.
Including this cylinder, for humans to live, or survive, should there be a problem on earth making life impossible here, before the next 2 to 3 billion years that is, as by then, the sun will have engulfed the earth by its current expansion phase, which is, of course, of astronomical proportion, scale and magnitude.

There is not much that would stop us to go and visit those robots working and building there, but there should not be a “need” to be.

Edit 08:59:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Hohmann+transfer+orbits&rlz=1C1GGRV_enCA752CA752&oq=Hohmann+transfer+orbits&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The Hohmann transfer orbits - minimum delta-V concept is a good idea, however, it would allow us more power and give us more resources.
There are other methods for transport and distribution of required assembly systems and subsystems that can be devised.

Edit 2 at 09:02:
Another benefit of dealing with space loads could be the regeneration of the earth’s ozone layer.
Perhaps the less we have to burn it with fuel and punch holes in it, the better it will be for it to do it’s protective work from negative sun rays, despite it’s poisonous toxicity.

Edit 3 at 09:18:

Png image of Gravity Well

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/681:_Gravity_Wells

Theoretically, if the sun expanded enough to engulf Jupiter, which it may not, due to distance, Jupiter could generate extra solar fuel, besides that of the other 4 planets before it, which would already have been.

Obviously, those gravity wells would have to be analyzed accurately enough so to avoid robotic accidents and their consequent repair resources, depending on the circumstances.
Systems external to our own solar system could be possible to run in the next 200 to 300 years, depending on their levels .

Edit 4 at 09:25:
The ISS is our first colony by 2,000, and maybe we could have if the political will had been there.
Just because people say we don’t doesn’t mean we don’t.
People can say whatever they want, it won’t change the facts.
If there would not have been political will to do so, we would not have our first ISS (International, not Interstellar, Space Station) colony by 2,000.
It did require political will, and scientific will, and practical scientific resources and the expenditure of those scientific resources to be able to succeed and keep it working as I write.

Edit 5 at 09:30:
Terraforming a planet or, first colony, moon, asteroid is much more complex than it seems, and it can also have other effects.
It’s much easier to assemble smaller systems which can deal with gravity differences and maybe make more analysis as to how to solve those gravity problems than to have the terraformed system without being able to live there due to gravity problems.


https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast01oct_1

A Terraformed system can therotically generate it’s own breathable oxygen and make agriculture possible without the use of a space suit to compensate for the conditions adverse to human needs.
The whole planet or system can do so by itself, like, if there was enough oxygen and trees on Mars to generate it’s own atmosphere with ozone layer and so on.
It’s much easier to create even a small station to live in.
We don’t even have such station on the moon for all I know.
The only mobile ones there were the relatively temporary expeditions we sent.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=terraforming+a+planet&rlz=1C1GGRV_enCA752CA752&oq=terraforming+a+planet&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


The word “Hypothetical” is used, followed by “process” to form an “Hypothetical process” contrary to a practical process.

Edit 6 at 09:51:
With enough work, everyone has a new job building in space, to organize more resources, and be able to travel better, before we can go to the next solar system.
Those extra solar system resources could help us to

  1. live on earth longer,
  2. to prepare to live on other conditions than earth if we cannot protect ourselves to live here due to act of God or other astronomical reasons,
  3. Prepare to reach the next solar system.

More and better control should not always work against us.
Of course, we may have problem to deal with 20 billion people on earth.
Even if the 6 billion to 8 billion we now have will eventually die, the added numbers of the next living generation, while this current one dies, will add up.
That means more resources will be required for their off-spring to be able to live as well.
Of course, 6 billion people is more manpower than lower amount of population, and more capacity to deal with risk of damage from outer-space as well as dealing with our own conditions here on earth.
There are conditions where that many people or, perhaps, more people, will not be better, and so, could cause more problems than good.

If we get better at it, we should be able to do it with less people, which would give more potential for the extra people to deal with the extra work.
To work with robots is not less work, contrary to popular belief, it is more work, in fact.

Edit 7 at 05:19:
Electron linac with deep energy control for Adaptive Rail Cargo Inspection System

Those can be used to launch material from planets, and moons. I’m not so sure about asteroid, as they may be harder to install on there, due to the smaller gravitational mass of those systems.
A second problem with the smaller asteroid is the fact that their own orbit can be affected simply by trying to approach a robotic space ship to it, and try to start to drill it.
It can literally be pushed out of it’s orbit, due to the small gravitational mass, and the fact even a small amount of force applied to it can move it out of that previous orbit.
It can be noted that those small asteroid can literally be moved out of their orbit if there is enough force for it.
They can be moved to the moon or other systems for processing.

Thirdly, I read designs to engulf the asteroid with a wrap around device, so as to keep it in place better, while an opposite force starts to drill it, and to mine it, without changing its orbit.
This was from Popular Mechanics


or

https://www.popsci.com/tags/space-mining


(Do Little) #10

The time when Earth will no longer support human life may not be as far in the future as you believe. Many will argue that the 6th mass extinction is already underway, largely the result of habitat destruction by a growing human population. Recent research suggests we may cross a tipping point in the carbon cycle by the end of this century that was a marker for the preceding 5 mass extinction events:


Tipping points are 1 way streets - there is no “undo” button - and I see no evidence that we as a species have the political or economic maturity to take corrective action before we cross the critical threshold.

The animals at the top of the food chain have never survived a mass extinction so colonies in space may be essential to our survival as a species in the near future.


(Veine Miromme) #11

If you try to make my belief different than they actually are or appear in your mirror, right.
However:
“2. to prepare to live on other conditions than earth if we cannot protect ourselves to live here due to act of God or other astronomical reasons”

Means that it could happen, and we would be better to have alternate ways to “deal with it”.

Consider that the destruction of mankind specie can be a justifiable ground for war, if that is the case, not in false cases.

The risk of human dying on Earth if we send robots in space will not be the same as human (not the whole specie) actually dying in space outside of Earth.
It could be better to have more resources to solve the problem risk of mass extinction , or early destruction of Earth with no 7th extinction or mass extinction possible.
Of course, if mismanaging those resources or their management leads to death and the same problem, or worst, it won’t be of any use, when efforts could have been put elsewhere, if at all of any use (when it may not be useful either).

“Including this cylinder, for humans to live, or survive, should there be a problem on earth making life impossible here, before the next 2 to 3 billion years that is, as by then, the sun will have engulfed the earth by its current expansion phase, which is, of course, of astronomical proportion, scale and magnitude.”

Asteroid can do the same damage as before, once more time.
We have no system to stop them.


(Veine Miromme) #13

http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/47/a47r068.htm

http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/51/a51r122.htm
51/122. Declaration on International Cooperation in the
Exploration and Use of Outer Space for the Benefit
and in the Interest of All States, Taking into
Particular Account the Needs of Developing Countries

http://www.ats.aq/e/ats.htm

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/outerspacetreaty.html


(system) #14

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