To the Gallente, Convince Me on the Merits of Ascension/Uplift into GalFed

Ms. Parvi, thank you for bringing your outlook into this, and it is one I respect. Your choice to join the Gallente Federation on merit of its ideals is a valid one at an individual scale.

Unfortunately, I also have to weigh up more than just my thoughts as an individual in this. Which is where the real sticking point comes from of asking these assorted questions.

I respect GalFed for HAVING the ideals it does. A good bit even, but it isn’t all sunshine and rainbows and happy songs. Nothing in this cluster is, and when weighing the future course of hundreds of millions(in the case of the colony across Eugales VI and its growing orbital infrastructure), or tens of billions(in the case of my homeworld), you cannot simply take something on ideals alone, much as one might wish to.

Yeah, gotta admit, that’s elitism. It’s not the ‘why should we explain ourselves again when it’s out there’, it’s the ‘who are you to demand it?’ bit. I don’t think Lith meant that impression at all, mind you. I think she just meant ‘the information’s out there where you can find it from unbiased, purely factual sources. Us trying to talk you into it just opens the door to people shouting ‘coercion!’ later.’

And then she asks what the Eugales colony brings to the table, because you don’t want to try to fit a round hole around a triangular peg.

If you plan on coming in to the Federation with this kind of attitude, we’ll pass on your application.

So you say… but perhaps I might contextualize some of this, Mr. Medici. While I have been somewhat sarcastic and contemptuous in some of my responses, it has mainly been in response to perceived poor intent, elitism, or contempt at the questions even being asked.

And what I have been provided by many is… ‘why is it a question at all? Why wouldn’t you want to join us? We are the best, because we are. Why should we convince you?’ Mind, I have also received a number of more private responses more vehement in expressing various bits of the above. Say what you like about ‘vocal minorities’… It still gives me poor impression.

And… now there’s your response… it implies contempt of its own, and that… if I am critical in my approach ahead of ascension, then its not worth bringing the colony I administrate in… Is that what the federation is about? Fitting a particular archetype and falling in line without any fuss? Where’s the talk of diversity of thought and ideas, the freedom of choice. Me, asking questions publically about a process that will ultimately affect hundreds of millions or more, to ascertain the disposition of peers and others that would watch the process in some fashion anyway, is reason enough for being passed over? I understand you’re something of a politician yourself Mr. Medici… is this you speaking on behalf of your constituency, Your party, A particular lobby, or yourself?

Command Adams, who is Caldari, and joined the Federation as an individual, has provided me more compelling reason to consider ascension than most who have lived in the Federation their entire lives that have given me responses to this. And yes, I’m aware that much of the information on Ascension for colonies and accedance of independent states into GalFed is available in many places… but I’m looking for something more. I want to know how those that actually live in the Fed look at this. What they think… what you and others think. Why? Because that will play a factor in the process, the end result, and the thereafter treatment of those under my purview at the Eugales VI colony and my people on my homeworld.

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As I said and Commander Adams has said, the majority of the people residing on Eugales VI likely already have all the rights of Federal citizens and the relevant local authorities should already be forcing you to afford them the full benefit of those rights. Confirming this is the case may well be the main purpose of the FIO investigation.

I see this as less about their rights and more about the rights of the colony itself, which impacts on the lives of its residents of course but is a distinct concept. At the moment, the colony is fairly fully exposed to the control of the local government(s). As a Member State, it would have a much enhanced position when dealing with the District Government as it would have all the protections granted to Member States by the Charter and Constitution. Currently, it only has the benefit of whatever it can negotiate.

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Member states are required to have some form of democratic government. In any proposed referendum, you get one vote.

However, as pointed out above, Eugales is already engaged with the Federation on at least some level. Are you asserting that engagement only came about because you were convinced at some point in the past, but now you are no longer convinced?

In terms of factional occupation, adding quickly, it looks like for 80-85% of the last 11 years, federally aligned forces have been in control. If you were the organizing force behind that control, and you are no longer convinced of the merits of organizing the system’s defense, what changed?

Perhaps the proposition is even more far-sighted than organizing the system’s defense against capsuleers, and you are claiming that if you are personally convinced to give consent, the overall security level of Eugales could be raised, sparing its population the back and forth of war altogether.

That seems a stretch, but good luck.

If this is instead ultimately just about capsuleer-owned factory installations, those are regulated by CONCORD and the entire conversation is moot.

Not quite so, such things are regulated in-part by CONCORD, but the main reason most capsuleer colonies would be ineligible for Ascension is, that they are generally temporary endeavors meant for maximizing profit in the short term before moving on. While such is generally unprecedented, its not impossible. That said the facilities, colonies, and infrastructure on Eugales VI is intended to be quite thoroughly permanent. I might direct you here , particularly the subsection about Ascension… this in particular

Capsuleer colonies are unlikely to ascend at this present time, due to the fact that few have been founded with any sense of permanency.

One of the vaguer places with information regarding ascension I admit, but still, its seems that permanency tends to be more the prerequisite factor over any concord mandate denying it, and as yet have found nothing that particularly contradicts it.

The Arcology and many of the other satellite colonies on Eugales VI have grown up around existing prefab installations, which usually constitute central portions of current industrial districts.

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CONCORD allows capsuleers to place and remove command centers at any time. The assurances of a single person they will not change their mind is not a democratic process, and the terms for federal membership are not met.

CONCORD could make clear that, once a colony is founded, capsuleers are free to relinquish ownership and control, but have no say in physically removing colonists, or the facilities necessary for their support, from a planet. CONCORD would then need to take on responsibility for ensuring the colonists could survive until such time as sustainability was achieved (which in some cases might be immediate).

That would be very generous on CONCORD’s part, but not impossible.

Yes, a capsuleer could “agree” to behave in that manner on their own. Without CONCORD binding itself to support the colony, however, any such agreement remains entirely up to individual whim and has no basis in democracy - a requirement for federal participation.

If a capsuleer did in fact relinquish control, and then CONCORD or the Federation itself assumed responsibility for keeping the colonists alive where necessary, and then a democratic system emerged among the colonists, a colony that was self-sufficient would most likely base any decision to hold a referendum on trade considerations. A colony that was not self-sufficient would perform some kind of “stay and make a go of it; or, move to a planet that is not covered in lava” analysis.

Once he joined the Federation, he is NOT Caldari anymore.

So, one of the most amoral disgraced, dishonorable capsuleers in our cluster gives you compelling reasons?..
Duly noted.

If the Federation oppresses citizens of Eugales and forces them into joining the gallentean hegemony as one of so-called “member states”, I believe we are due to liberate the system from that tyrannical authority.

Unlike the Federation, The State never forces anyone to join, we only provide services to our citizens and partial services to those who willingly decides to settle on our territory without joining us properly.

But since the Eugales is in the State sphere of the influence (the Federation has “traded” this system into warzone to compensate their burglarious intents of invading Black Rise), it is our duty to take care of the people and to protect them from invasive Federal attempts to force them into joining.

The system is to become State territory. Those baseliners who don’t wish to live in the State are to evacuate. Those who will wish to stay, will live there with our permission (always keep in mind, that State space is for Caldari, all others are our guests as long as we allow them to stay). And those who will be found collaborating with Gallente Federation will be tried by tribunal court.

Pick one…

Also, “burglarious” is a charming creation of a word that I shall adopt henceforth. So, thank you for that at least.

There is no contradiction to pick only one. I’ll take them both and even more.

How is telling people that they need your permission to stay in their homes liberating them?

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It liberates them from their homes.

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Burglarious indeed!

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Not really, Gallente Federation signed these territories off into war with us in order to justify their claims on our territories. They wanted our Black Rise, we take their space for that instead.

Glory to the State!

It seems that, you have a gross misunderstanding of how militia systems control trades work currently.

Now. Would you kindly take your continuing arguments out of this thread to off-topic, before I involve summit moderation for continuing derailment.

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Even if I were to, say… unroot all existing prefab factory units in the industrial districts of the Arcology and its satellite colonies(which I have no intention of doing either way), the Arcology has the requisite infrastructure to remain self-sufficient and self-sustain, so your continued preaching and assumptions of the situation are quite entertainingly inaccurate.

First I would like to apologize for how long it has taken me to respond, it has been a crazy past couple weeks here in New Eden, and these past couple days show it’s just getting started. I meant no disrespect or insult in not responding in a timely matter.

I did not wish for my comment to come off as elitist or contemptuous; without knowing about the despicable private slights you received, I had read your proposal and comments as mocking of the entire Federation’s institutions and processes of government. I would react the same if I were in your position, and hope our earlier interaction can be water under the bridge.

Dissent is critical to a free and liberal society, so you are actually doing the Federation and its citizens, whether they know it or not, a great service in questioning the ascension process and the legal/political/social/economic rights of groups of people living together thru the freedom of association and chosen bonds within the Federation borders.

In terms of who I speak for, the Congress on Luminaire Republicanism is a political advocacy group and peacekeeping organization. We advocate our own take on Gallente Liberalism, named Luminaire Republicanism, drawing from the Luminaire Model used by the Gallente when first founding the Federation as we know it today. We do not officially or legally represent or speak for any citizens or other organizations/institutions of the Federation, we merely hope to have an effect on those people and places to make the Federation and greater interstellar cluster a more welcoming, forgiving, just, and peaceful place to live.

Went a bit politician mode at the end there :sweat_smile: and I know there aren’t too many specifics, so if there’s anything I can elaborate on please let me know. I look forward to your response.

Aram Medici
Chairman of the Congress on Luminaire Republicanism

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