Transhumanism

[Fale_Einn]

@Ramona_McCandless

None of those are cheap or affordable to anyone but rich people.

Poor people will get the mandatory ones.

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Fale_Einn

Poor people will get the mandatory ones.

which will not include free software updates for the lifespan of the implant

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Fale_Einn

We don’t seem to actually think at the speed of light but rather the speed is a fairly slow but gigantically parallel computer

Yeah, “talk at the speed of light” isn’t quite the same as “think at the speed of light”, however in some future where we are able to upload consciousness somewhere, we won’t necessarily be limited by physiology (we have no way of knowing at this point).

Network comms certainly can travel at the speed of light, hence “talk at the speed of light”, although the interfaces at either end of network traffic slow it down.

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

@Fale_Einn

Hopefully the point of transhumanism is to escape our present path and do something useful with ourselves.

I bet we will find out there are better materials to work with than humans.

…and still try to work with humans because it will be a stupid human calling the shots.

[bluelysian]

@Pan_Dora1

and still try to work with humans because it will be a stupid human calling the shots.

- YouTube

[bluelysian]

|![Infomorph Psycholog
|Psychological training that strengthens the pilot’s mental tenacity. The reality of having one’s consciousness detached from one’s physical form, scattered across the galaxy and then placed in a vat-grown clone can be very unsettling to the untrained mind.

It is not EvE Online invent this terminology… it has been already seeded in tranhumanism and well known theme in science fiction …
which also one of the core specialities of EvE Online…
Being immortal via trasferring mind to new host.

Now in up thread i have seen @Lugh_Crow-Slave bring to table the idea “ actaully we don’t need a body “

I think whay he has been imagining was “ VANAMONDE “

Vanamonde is the second, successful experiment of the ancient empire: a being of pure intellect, immensely old, immensely powerful, able to move instantly to any point in space—but entirely childlike and unsophisticated. Vanamonde’s ultimate destiny, Hilvar realizes, is to battle the Mad Mind, when it escapes its prison at the end of Time.
From “city and the stars” asimov .
This approach clearly takes the “mind” intelligens something like independent from the rest of the body… So means mind actually doesnt need a body…

What we are engaging here is human being … We are human …
And human brain functions effected heavily by the chemical activities , hormones occurs in rest of the body… sex drive is realted with hormones, your intelligence and what makes new connections in your brain (learning ) and miyeline very dependent to your thiroids and liver functions, brain and many other organs intesively surive and function in a interconnected context .

What we feel in our body consciously and unconsciously effect our way of thinking analysing skills…Our seratonine lvls may effected by nutrition and events… in PTSD your reactions to some simple neutral stimulants can be very over dosed.

Therefor optimal can be just like in EvE online … having optimised body which these functions work as it should be to transfer … but trasfering consciousness one thing … but how that conscience developing and evolving is another thing .

[Nana_Skalski]

@Snowflake_Tem

Does transitioning from humanity mean leaving it behind?

if you expand for example in pleasure that can be achieved in any moment by release of certain chemicals into brain, it will lead to complete breakdown of the life of such person, as it will spend the rest of it only achieving that pleasure, in that state, with short breaks on food or sleep.

If you expand on some rather not important thing, like memory capabilities, you will not be able to forget everything, which may be a detriment in your future when you will be constantly reminded by yourself about situations, that in case could influence your behavior, you could be quite carefull and not spontaneous. And for that you may avoid many things and have behavioral patterns that are avoidance based.

If you expand on intelligence, you will be able to make use of the memory expansion also even more, and this could make your life choices even more thought out, to the point when you spend most of the time not being able to make a decision, because you will be constantly making scenarios and then put yourself in the role, but not being able to predict future, you will have to get plan on many occasions. This can make you avoid leaving home, or have some weird obsessions, like washing your hands every few minutes.

We function in a cloud of averages that we evolved with, that made our brains function on every day basis to provide us with efficiently spend lives, if we dont ignore the signals it send us. We can start “branching out” with brain in many different ways, but that means… disruption of the efficient pattern we evolved to have.

This was about mind, for body situation is a lot simpler. You just become stronger, more agile, faster, more durable. But that if you can really find a source of energy and material to endure the stress, and repair itself. Again, we have quite efficient and remarkable bodies now, that can see few small improvements maybe, but small, completely organic bodies are a very nice thing to have, its like having organic nanobots already repairing you and reacting to minuscule and big dangers.

If we 'merge" with machine that can improve its capabilities, machine will probably take over, because it can be made efficient in many ways, to the point of being a singularity, that will make short work of your remnant “yourself” and do what it wants to do, and everything would live in a world made up by machines for machines. Humans could be seen as pests then, for machines, or as monkeys for us are now. As a remnant of evolution that resulted in machine life.

We would have to avoid creating intelligent machines, AGI is example of what we should not do, as it for example complicates the societal status of being, and the result would be revolutions people wrote about in books about robot slaves that are given mind and can think for themselves as humans do.

We have to see the future as full of traps, and not repeat the mistakes the creators of past machines have created for us now. Like invention and popularization of combustion engine or steam engine. Like splitting the atom.

Writing that, I am sure people will do all those things, and they will suffer the consequences. It is in humar nature to try new things that give it more power, that are like swords that can and will be turned against the creators of them. Yet, we are past that point and we already used atomic weapons against ourselves. More to come.

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

@Nana_Skalski

as it will spend the rest of it only achieving that pleasure, in that state, with short breaks on food or sleep.

Ah! Such optimism to assume the breaks for food/sleep.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@bluelysian

Now in up thread i have seen @Lugh_Crow-Slave bring to table the idea “ actaully we don’t need a body “

Careful there. That depends how you define body.

My assertion was that we do not need a body mimicking that of our donor.

[bluelysian]

@Lugh_Crow-Slave

The meat suits we inhabit are again born of comfort not need.

Reply to that . And we need a body. Both for eve and in case real infomorph case

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@bluelysian

And we need a body. Both for eve and in case real infomorph case

Not one made of meat and not one built in the image of a person

[bluelysian]

@Lugh_Crow-Slave

Have you been in a ship before? Where all of those senses are replaced by the ships instruments and sensors?

Not really

[Snowflake_Tem]

@Fale_Einn

I have a friend who has always been very interested in what consciousness is, and says that it’s not unlikely that our brains are nothing but an antenna of sorts registering stuff on a quantum level.

Which makes “life’s a game” and “simulation / holographic universe” theory compatible and interesting.

Does that make our choice to adopt a degree of transhumanism more or less consequential?

[bluelysian]

Not really… as part of my education we study neurologic psychology for a year in medical faculty…
i would say it could be in chem lab too lol. Was absolute brain fuckery class too i have to admit lol
That is also one thing does not ADD UP the way clone installing in EvE Online… everytime we learn something something change … brain builds up new connections… and these connections are chem induced physical changings in neural map…

Which means brain is not some stabile wired system … it changes … so …

When we are jumping new body ‘ s brain shouldnt be “Ready” only way to be ready is …it must be constantly mirroring and changing map of the clone while active body is thriving …

Also @ISD_Golem this subject must be under the general discussion…
So far i dont think anybody here experienced any transhumanistic stuff in that context more than in EvE online as simulation … it anchored on many ingame terms and lore too… Consider also so many people doesnt aware about this dimention of the game …Neither have idea what it is even.
Also if you have out pod experience around the subject please welcome to join we would love to hear

[Wadiest_Yong]

How does

@Fale_Einn

it’s not unlikely that our brains are nothing but an antenna of sorts registering stuff on a quantum level

link into

@Snowflake_Tem

Which makes “life’s a game” and “simulation / holographic universe” theory compatible and interesting.
Does that make our choice to adopt a degree of transhumanism more or less consequential?

? Care to explain how you linked these two ?

“Life’s a game” is as relevant as “Life’s a joke”.“Life’s a struggle”, on the other hand, is one that any human can agree to.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@bluelysian

When we are jumping new body ‘ s brain shouldnt be “Ready” only way to be ready is …it must be constantly mirroring and changing map of the clone while active body is thriving …

You have more than just brain inside an infomorph head. There is a reason a regular human body is incompatible with the technology required

[bluelysian]

Yeye… implants stuff … this does not and also not enough to by pass what i am saying…as long as you dont tell me that they totally replaced the brain with somethingelse.
Yesterday morning i had been eating bread with rose jam… and begin to humm a song was like stuck … Reason…

Then hit my head suddenly like last time like weeks ago when i have been eating rose jam actually i have been listening that song … Brain is not a calculator … what you feel on your tongue and what you listen and thinkinging surfaces unexpected context and shapes

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@bluelysian

as long as you dont tell me that they totally replaced the brain with somethingelse.

The brain learns new things the implants store the old. It’s why back in the day clone grades existed. If you didn’t buy a clone with higher capacity you would literally forget anything that couldn’t be stored. Represented in game as skill points.

On top of this infomorphs are also capable of existing inside completely synthetic bodies like Bob did/ does. When his implants fused and integrated with his neural matter he could no longer transfer to a new clone. He had to develop a new way to get out of his body. One that ended with him transferring into an entirely synthetic one

Another way to lose information and a far more catastrophic one is too be killed. It’s why you commit suicide in your pod before you can be killed. Allowing for a simultaneous copy and transmission of your consciousness.

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

@Lugh_Crow-Slave

Not one made of meat and not one built in the image of a person

According to the lore is very important to the cloned brain to be built in the image of the original. There is the question of how much of the body we really need but we cannot totally dispense it.

In RL well…it’s very bold to suppose our minds could exist outside our bodies.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

But again this is do to an artifact of our creation process and there have been capsuleers that over came this. Proving it is not a real necessity.