Many thanks to the Tribal Council and advisors for the careful consideration of the matter and a clear stance on it.
No doubt this decision will spark discussion, as a similar question before has: namely, that of how should we react to tribesmen and -women who could be liberated from the Amarr, but themselves express a wish to remain behind or even return to the Empire.
This stance seems to be in favor of the idea that a person is allowed to choose, even if they choose to return to Darkness. Which should give some food of thought to those of us who think that the simple act of refusing to be liberated is paramount to betrayal and punishable by being shot on sight, maybe.
In fact they could clone same person multiple of times in the same place to achieve optimum performance of a given task. It is not mentioned anywhere and my sole observation.
There is lot of gray area here to comprehend and question.
So, uh, I am confused as to what your argument here is. Indentured slavery is fine if you only enslave the cognitive and physical elite? Multiple copies of the same person is not bad if Upwell does it?
I argument nothing. Just share my observations. You are free to draw your own conclusions.
But the âexclusivityâ of the Upwellâs cloning program adds to its âattractivenessâ for potential âvolunteersâ. People tend to brag about making into any âThe ClubââŚ
But who they will brag to if they end up locked in a labor camp?
Whoever at Upwell came up with that scheme sure knew what were they doingâŚ
As a well known creator of asinine ideas, I find it somewhat curious that Upwell has decided to evaluate candidates physical strength and endurance for⌠manual labour potential.
I struggle to understand how or why anyone would use clone workers for manual labour when exoskeletons and cyberprosthetics and similar dinguses exist at a fraction of the cost.
I have also a few question regarding some social aspects:
What will be legal status of the cloned individuals: will they be regarded as deceased or will retain their citizen rights (voting, parenting, pensions, inheritance, ownership, etc)?
WIll they be paid for their work and have banking accounts?
Will they be free to move around?
If not what will happen if they try to?
Will they remember past deaths if re-cloned multiple times and probably in multiple copies at the same time?
I am far from an expert, but from listening to my experts, I believe this has to do with the fact that a personâs spiritual pathways (the part of the mind that gets transformed in a cloning process, sometimes called âthe infomorphâ) is affected by the body it has developed in. Spiritual pathways adapted to manual labour take better into a clone suited for manual labour, and similar phenomena regarding other aspects of aptitudes.
Not everyone who can be cloned can become a capsuleer pilot, because of these same reasons.
Interestingly, so far, this has been dictated by the the decision and the local custom of the individuals, and also by the circumstances. I am legally dead when it comes to inheritance of property; I am also legally dead when it comes to inheritance of clan status, though at a later date than the first; thereâs been a funeral and all. I am still legally alive when it comes to clan membership and jurisdiction.
Well, I suppose that could be true, however itâs just the whole idea of clones performing manual labour that I find baffling.
Like, as I understand things, anywhere that uses manual labour, itâs for spiritual reasons, or sometimes judicial punishment reasons. Like⌠mining rocks with hand tools. Surely it wouldnât make any sense to employ a cloned person to do that, rather than operate some kind of mining machine, in which case physical strength and endurance are largely irrelevant.
Even in the most backward parts of Kaztropol, itâs pretty much only the sex workers whose job relies on their personal strength, flexibility and endurance.
Everyone else has some form of power tool or machine or something that does the physical part of their job.
I just donât understand the economics of Upwell cloning people for manual labour. I mean, theyâre not doing it for religious reasons, so the economics of it have to make sense, right ?
And I canât make any sense of how it would be profitable, you know ?
âBiomachinesâ aka Upwell clones, are less prone to malfunction, more versatile, agile and cheaper to manufacture and replace than their pure mechanical counterparts.
And you can upload same âsoftwareâ - a specific infomorph complete with experience and professional knowledge into multiple copies of the clone as you would do with the regular non biomachine.
Rescued Minmatar have no choice but to be returned to the Tribes to be re-educated and treated as best they can be for Vitoc addiction.
As for the Tribal Council approving Upwell Workforce Transfers, it raises suspicion. We have no possible way to know the long or short term effects of this process on our People or Culture. I am usually one for jumping feet first but with this the Council should have been more cautious.
But as a free Minmatar itâs your decision, letâs hope itâs the right one!
While Iâm hardly disagreeing with the words, I canât help but notice this disregards the perspective that while it might not make them traitors, it certainly can make them enemies working towards the Empireâs objective of ending all notion of our people being free.
At that point, thereâs certainly an argument to be made that the most rabid of frothing zealots should be given a merciful end rather than suffer on, broken and dangerous to the rest of us.
People should have the freedom to do as they wish. There are a lot of traditionalists who rightly so criticize the process of cloning but it should be up to any individual.
As capsuleers maybe youâve received averseness in that regard as well. Itâs a spiritual matter.
Just as a tree needs its roots to ground and nourish it, our bodies serve as the vessel for our souls to experience and navigate the physical world. The Voluval ritual serves as a great reminder of that connection.
Personally I welcome the councils decision, Iâm just confused that they are so vague about actual regulations regarding the operation of Upwell inside the Republic.
There must be rules in check to balance the individualâs rights and regulations for Minmatar citizens to opt-out of this cloning program as they wish, not as Upwell demands because itâs a matter of personal freedom.
@Elsebeth_Rhiannon
I think there is a fundamental difference between the individualâs choice of returning to darkness and what Upwell proposes.
If people refuse to be liberated thatâs a weakness a person can overcome. For a traumatized soul that needed to live in slavery their whole life it can be overwhelming and is more of a mental illness that needs treatment to enlight their spark again. Thatâs why the liberation is only the first step that needs to be taken, sometimes even with necassary force and thatâs justified.
What Upwell proposes is a chance for some people. A new experience if you may call that.
There is a fear that Upwell will abuse itâs power, but I think the council will make sure there are regulations in place for people to not fall into a trap similar to slavery under different conditions.
The little spirit had always been tethered to its body, never experiencing true freedom. But one fateful night, it broke itâs chains and emerged from its physical form, leaving the spirit to roam the earthly realm alone. Wandering aimlessly, longing for the warmth and comfort of its corporeal shell, the spirit cried out in agony realizing it was forever condemned to wander the earthly realm as a lost, disembodied spirit.
I hope it will not be a âcorporate shellâ instead.
I do understand, and in certain situations also can agree with, the argument that even if a person has the right to choose to return to the Empire, that choice means they are now one of the Enemy, and should be treated as such, which on the field might mean death. Upwell is not Enemy in that sense - at least not yet, though depending on the details how they handle this, it is not inconceivable they might become so.
I am very hesitant about labeling choices we see as wrong as spiritual illness, and by that grounds forbidding people from making those choices based on assumed incompetence, though. I can very easily see that kind of reasoning used against myself, and other political dissidents.
