"A scientific milestone in cloning technology"

Equinox is spurred on by a scientific milestone in cloning technology, ushering in a paradigm shift in how populations can be mobilized and utilized across the vastness of space, empowering the colonial aspirations of nullsec leaders with access to a highly skilled workforce.
(From an Upwell ad)

Offering people work if they consent to being cloned and taking The Fast Way to gods-only-know-where to work in a sweatshop with strangers for a power-hungry nullsec capsuleer warlord?

How convenient that this arrives with a media panic of rising unemployment in the Federation outer worlds. Even more convenient to certain other populations who do not bother asking people if they’d like to be employed before sending them off to gods-only-know-where to work for power-hungry warlords.

Upwell’s capability of tinkering is almost on the level of the Sebiestor Tribe itself, and the skyhook will certainly be a game changer for a lot of planetary economies, but maybe not all things should be tinkered with.


A milestone others have passed. But it’s nice to see Upwell catching up in technological application.

It is certainly puzzling exactly what supposed scientific milestone that was not achieved many many years ago Upwell is speaking of, or how it might be applied in a way that is actually economically efficient or that does not run afoul of CONCORD regulations.

I suppose we shall see.

I am curious to see exactly what the ethical and legal implications are, since given what is generally suggested by how it is talked about, well. Mostly nothing exactly new, but not something most of the empires seem to like. Of course, I suppose in nullsec, such concerns might be considered ‘quaint.’

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I feel like the lawless outer rim of systems doesn’t really have a need for more passive income and power.

However, if they’re saying ‘cloning’, but actually just cloning and then having little ‘oopsie’ moments at the processing facility of a few hundred worlds in the most populated empire of New Eden effectively sending them to the rim…I could get behind that.

In fact, I think I could get behind enormous orbial structures ripping the hearts out of few thousand highsec empire worlds in Amarr territory and leaving the planets to turn barren.

I doubt Upwell will do this though, and instead simply oppress free people by the millions with the excuse of “well they volunteered” and “they’re just clones”. No doubt harvesting bodies at a scale that would make Sansha jealous from worlds previously oppressed and taking advantage of people that simply hear a new way to leave their poor baseliner lives.


The Equinox announcement video showcases an obscene display of thousands of clones taking stuff out of or putting into boxes, on assembly lines for transport via the new Skyhook. Surely this menial work could be done by robots at a fraction of the cost. Biological clones require massive quantities of foodstuffs, and transportation of same, even if it’s liquid goop out of a pipe and they’re conditioned to love it (and the work.) Direct energy to power robots seems much more efficient by comparison, to power the ongoing needs of the tasks shown.

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It certainly does seem so, yes. So it will be curious to find out if they have made some advance that does make it somehow more efficient.

This is normalization of slavery on a vast scale and as such it is awesome.

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The Question of whether Upwell retains the Right to make Additional Copies of an individual, does not yet appear to have been Answered.


Well, legally, CONCORD has always seemed to be strictly opposed to multiple copies of an infomorph existing at once, so if they tried to do so, they might get in the sort of trouble that causes SARO to appear.

Then again, SARO’s opinion on the matter might be the reason this is aggressively marketed to nullsec warlords specifically.

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That does seem entirely possible.

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Not to mention they don’t talk about the price.

Is it really any grosser than we are, Elsebeth?

And … no, they don’t. It does seem like they’ve maybe found a solid solution to crew attrition, though.

One … concern: having perfected a technology like this seems like a top candidate for why the Triglavians are how they are-- if death’s almost casually reversible, war becomes a sport. We already kind of treat it like one, and maybe that’s even okay if everybody gets to come along.

If it’s only certain classes or castes that do, though, that’s kind of likely to run roughshod over everybody else.

No; but an abomination deemed once necessary existing does not imply it’s just fine to spread it. I for one do not intend to live forever, and to offer large-scale disruption of the natural cycles of generations is a matter of another scale, even if not a different matter altogether.

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Critiques of cloning sound a little foul coming from our many-times-cloned mouths, though. We have and use this tool; how can we complain when it’s offered to others, less-fortunate?

And among the more obvious natural cycles we’re in breach of, “getting out of our gravity wells and away from stable biospheres” seems troublesome in similar ways, but we’ve been doing it since literally before recorded history.

Am I really in a position to complain if some dying person is willing to trade an unhappy, brief life to come help keep a station running? … though that life might of course also be unhappy and brief.

It does trouble me a little, though. What is Upwell asking for these new lives it’s offering? And how far does that offer extend?

I guess we’ll have to see what the details on this really are.

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Does where you hear the truth make it less true?

When it’s a subjective “truth” rather than demonstrable fact, I kind of think it can, even must, Elsebeth.

A sermon warning against the evils of greed will land quite differently from an obscenely wealthy individual, even if it’s well-reasoned.

I don’t feel like someone who’s had as many bodies as I is well-positioned to tell dying people they shouldn’t want more.

And did someone tell those people they should not want more?

When we invoke death as part of a “natural cycle,” that is kinda what we’re saying, yes, Elsebeth.

“It’s natural; it’s the way of things. Everything dies, in its time. To try to resist death is to defy nature. To wish for the impossible will only make you suffer. To try to attain it will only lead to ruin. If it’s your time, it’s your time. Just let go.”

That’s the usual line, more or less, stated or not. And I’m not sure it’s even wrong.

But we’re awful messengers for it.

Once again, Aria Jenneth, speak for yourself. There is no “we” here.

I will leave it as an exercise who is to blame here, if not the people who might take this offer. I am sure a philosopher of your caliber can figure it out.