Trying to fit a Rattlesnake for L4

Rayaghuma, that fit is overpriced, overtanked, pointless, and a gank magnet.

First, very few people will ever gank a T2-fitted Rattlesnake, and those that want to will most likely not bring enough DPS to cut through a regularly-tanked RS before Concord arrives (because those that want to gank a T2 RS may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer if you know what I mean), because a regular T2 fitted RS is simply not worth the time for tear collectors. However, and I hope you’ve posted this fit with your alt, you just outed yourself as someone who flies an RS in the billions upon billions of isk.

Second, you misunderstand passive shield tanking. If you’re making it through L4 missions at 75% shield with that fit, you’re doing it wrong. Peak passive recharge rate is around 33%, meaning at 33% your shields will be recharging at the fastest rate possible. At any other point, you’re wasting passive shield modules where you could be using other modules to, say, apply some of that DPS to your targets. Your entire low rack is completely wasted where you could put in some damage mods to increase the damage output of both your drones and your missiles.

Speaking of drones and missiles, why would you use CN missile launchers? You will get either more damage or better application moving to T2 launchers with appropriate ammo. That is a pointless waste of isk. As for your drones, you don’t need 2 geckos unless you are planning on losing an 80mil isk drone every now and then… you should probably keep better watch on your drones if that’s the case. Also, you want light scout drones to take out smaller NPCs. You would also want sentry drones because the RS gets a bonus to sentries. And finally, in the time you could cut from your missions by increasing both your damage output and application, you could actually come back to the pocket and salvage the wrecks in the same amount of time that it would take you to just run a mission in your fit.

And then your mids… unless you are planning on getting some serious neuting, you should use active hardeners because you get better bonuses. No mission will be able to rid you of your cap before you take out the neuting NPC, and gankers likewise won’t be able to rid you of your cap before Concord shows up. So you don’t need the amps, and the deadspace modules again are a waste when something far cheaper will get the job done. You should have a propulsion module of some sort as well, and some damage application mods perhaps.

You will never ever be able to do enough missions in this fit to be able to make the isk back that you spent on it. It is a complete waste of time, energy and resources, and as opposed to protecting you from ganks, it could actually end up costing you your hard earned isk.
I really hope this is an EFT warrior fit, and you don’t actually fly it.

As far as the incursions go, you can’t even solo an incursion worth doing in that fit, and typically incursions are gang affairs anyways. There are tons of corps and alliances that spend their time pursuing incursions; instead of wasting all of your money, just join with them and use one of their many recommended (and far far cheaper) fits.

As far as wanting to have the best possible tank regardless of cost, first off, you noted that you could spend another 38 billion to get a better tank, so unless you actually have spent that 38 billion and do fly the shield boosted version that you alluded to, you are not putting your money where your mouth is and your logic for having this linked fit is out the window. Second of all, as noted above, if you are that paranoid about dying in a mission with an RS, up your skills. I mean, again, your logic is out the window because with the amount spent on that fit, you could fit up several T2 Rattlesnakes, or you could up your skills to the point where you could use T2 mods and still not have to worry about dying in missions.

I mean, seriously… wtf??? This has to be a troll. You can’t possibly fly this

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Well, I dont mind if this fit is overprized and a gank magnet - I only play it for fun and to get my own challenges. If people like to adjust their fits every time to the mission needs, its ok, I dont mind. I like the “jack of all trade”-fits and THIS is already able to solo the lower incursion sites.

I personally wouldnt try it (Incursions, solo) with a T2 fit, because it doesnt take that much damage - and sometimes there is a lot damage incoming, bringing the shields down to 50% in a short time and I dont know if the tank breaks when using T2s.

However, thats my playstyle and the posted fit was just a rough blueprint how to make a pure passive tank (the quality and cost of modules is everyones own matter) and I already said above that everyone can change it to his liking.

Personally I take 2 Geckos, because if one is shield-damaged I call it back and launch the other one - that usually breaks aggro on drones and then I kill the NPCs that go for the drones - works pretty well and I get always drones out.
The Vespas are only for the smaller NPCs, where the Gecko get problems to hit them.
Sentries might be fine if I would keep my place and dont move, but I usually orbit around a fix point and last time I used them (years ago) it was a problem to get them back in time when I left them too far away, before they get shredded to pieces.

The 38b fit is only theoretical, because the required modules are not on the market.

However, we dont need to go deeper in that matter. Everyone can play how he likes…

Vespas 0.858 rad/sec

Gecko 0.85 rad/sec

They have same problem.

Warrior 3.24 rad/sec<use right tool for a job

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If your Gecko starts taking damage that usually means it’s webbed. Recalling it is usually not an option to save it in time unless you also destroy the frigates attacking it - which is next to impossible with cruise missiles (T2 launchers with Precision ammo would help, but they still apply damage poorly). During this recall over half your DPS is also effectively removed from the field. Approximately half of L4 missions pose this kind of threat.

Just because you can do a thing doesn’t necessarily mean that you should.

yea, me either

It’s been awhile, but I’m the OP, and I’ve been trying as many different fits from this thread, as my skills have allowed. I can get better damage (around 1100dps with T2rapid heavy launchers and missiles), but I really like the range of cruises. Especially now that I’ve gotten level 5 in Cruise, and I can use the T2 launchers and missiles.
I’ve also come to really appreciate the MJD/Sentry drone combo for easy mode (and Get Out of Dodge when necessary).
I’m not uber rich, so I want a fit I can afford to replace, as well as one that won’t draw gankers. This one comes in around 530-540million ISK, counting the hull.
Obviously this one is a faction fit for Guristas, but it’s pretty simple to change the tank and drones. I have come to drop the target painter, as the small T2 drones (and sentries) seem to take care of frigates/destroyers pretty efficiently. But I go back and forth on that.
I do salvage most of my missions, not because it’s really efficient, but just because I like to.

As always, I come for constructive critcism. Thanks.

[Rattlesnake, L4 Mission fit]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pithum B-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Pithum B-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Thermal Dissipation Field II
Pithum B-Type Thermal Dissipation Amplifier

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Wasp I x3
Hornet II x5
Salvage Drone I x5
Garde I x2

Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x600
Scourge Fury Cruise Missile x3500
MTU

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Nice one JT.

I like the high-DPS fits, with a tank that just safely manages to allow you to apply said damage.
Seems the most efficient and enjoyable way to do it.

Might consider faction sentries over T1s, and work on those drone skills at some point. I planned an attribute remap to do all my drone training when it was most appropriate. Lots of SP to get them done but well worth it.

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If you using an mjd and a light tank, you probably want longer range sentries.

further tested it. using T2 fit - 2 heavy drones and RHML you get easily over 1000 dps and can split your weapons like 1 drone per ship (anything smaller then battleship) and your missiles on third ship.

if you are fighting in close range mission (up to 50KM radius) then you clear missions so fricking fast it is amazing.

JT,
that’s great that you are adapting your fit as you go, and taking advice. There are a lot of smart folk on here.

Consider a few things which I mentioned in my original post:

Defensive Slots
As your fit stands now, your entire mid rack, all rigs and one low slot are dedicated to defense. You should think about how you want to use your Rattlesnake. As it stands now, you mentioned that you enjoy the MJD/Sentry Drone combo. Consider the purpose of that approach: it is to distance tank the mission, i.e. you put yourself outside of the attack range of the NPCs that you are attacking, so that they cannot hit you. The question then is why have all of your mid slots dedicated to tank when the NPCs cannot hit you?
Of course, this changes vs Guristas: they can hit you from quite a distance. I learned from experience that a distance tank (i.e. no defensive modules) will lose your very expensive ship against Guristas. In that case, you may want to consider a brawler set-up (short range sentries, Gecko, strong tank, aggro management).

It comes down to what makes you most comfortable. When I first began flying the RS, I went with distance tank, and it worked until I faced Guristas. It forced me to rethink my approach; I simply wanted a ship that worked for all missions. I searched and found a variation of the fit I posted earlier. As I said, the low slots had 4 shield power relays, a ballistic control and a drone damage amplifier. As I got more comfortable with aggro management and the passive shield regeneration rate, I eventually dropped all of the shield power relays and my DPS improved greatly.

Just for reference, the fit I posted earlier has 1347 DPS with Warden IIs or 1480 DPS with the Gecko; Rapid Heavy Launchers push the DPS to 1583. The tank is 98,000 EHP. The drones apply damage quite well with the two Omnidirectional Tracking Links with Tracking Speed Scripts. It’s mostly T2, with the exception of the CN Ballistic Control Systems, so that you are not such a gank magnet. You can even drop one or two of the Large Shield Extenders for a Missile Guidance Computer to improve missile application; I’ve done that a few times and enjoyed the results.

Again, I urge you to play to the ships’ strengths. It gets no bonuses to range. It has great bonuses to drone damage and hitpoints. It has a great passive shield recharge rate.

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I agree with almost everything he said, which is corroborated by my own experience - to the point of having a RS with RH, guidance computer in null sec. I have a precision and a range script, also a set of sentries to hit from afar. Managing aggro is : aggro everything, align to triangle mjd, mjd, full stop, launch sentries(vs guristas orbit sentries), wait for rats to come at range, shoot the frigs then ds, then cr , align back to target(typically next gate), recall sentries, mjd, drop heavy, attack BS, laugh maniacally in the explosions.

Just wanted to correct that

  • gecko are not that good against pirate faction, eg wasp are better vs serp/guristas/mordus, praetor vs blood/sansha, berserk vs angels.
    ogres have the best DPS overall (worst apply). So get a specialized set of drones. And, losing a set of TII to web rats is much less painfull than losing a set of geckos ^^
  • RHML reload really hurts. Takes the sustained DPS - but also consider they have better apply than torps or cruisers.

Also yes, vs guristas you need to sig/speed tank. an AB II multiplies your speed by 2.3 so actually divides your incoming damage (from BS) by this same amount (so multiplies your rep by said amount). this is the same thing as having an invul with +56% resist, also with the advantage of keeping distance to small fries.

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I’m loving this thread, about to purchase a RS, been flying a Raven for a bit and just want to mix it up as most of my drone skills are at V.

Just got to work out if I want to go brawler or not

So after running a few L4s, I believe my tank may be a little less than ideal.

Having to warp out a few times isnt the best (still learning from eve survival guide), although I’m having a lot of trouble with frigates when they get close.

Im running 5x hobo, 5 x warrior, 2 x bouncer, 2 x guard.

Am I better off running with heavies? If so won’t I struggle even more with frigates?

My drone skills are ok I think, most are at V besides durability and avionics

what’s your fit ?

With a rattle you should NOT have to warp out in L4s
Also rs is bonused for heavies, using something else is non-optimal dps-wise.

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And sentries, for the role bonus.

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As stated above, you should not have issues with your tank in L4s. If you do, you most likely have issues with:

  • Aggro management: having more ships than necessary attacking you, either by killing triggers and spawning more or by hitting multiple groups
  • Range tanking: getting too close to your targets, or taking too long and letting them get too close

Since you are using sentries and cruise missiles, you should be trying to stay at long range. This substantially decreases the ability of NPCs to damage you Do you have a mjd? That’s a first easy thing to add to stay away from danger (and it is not stopped by NPC points, so it is a nice “get out of jail” card).

Starting at full range, and using eve-survival, target NPCs from individual groups one by one and manually control your sentries (ie set to passive) so they don’t hit something else. Depending on your cruise missile application, you can start with destroyers and cruisers, probably.

Have your sentries target frigates as soon as possible. When you just start the fight and NPCs are far away, they use a mwd to fly to you in a straight line. This increases their signature and reduces their angular velocity, making them very easy to kill with sentries. They will likely be one shot. Then you can move up size classes (destroyer -> cruiser -> BC -> BS).

Heavy drones are mostly for brawling either with large targets (BC+), or smaller targets under web and/or target painter. In your case, it does not seem like it would help much since you are not looking at brawling and your problems are with smaller ships.

For reference, my RS fit has 4 tank modules: 1 X-Large shield booster, 1 Shield boost amplifier, 2 rat specific hardener. To run that (and a mwd), I use 1 Large cap battery and 3 cap flux coils. I have found that I can get a ship I enjoy flying more with an active tank (and the cap to run remote reps if flying in fleet, and/or a mwd to actually fly around) than a passive fit (where your cap sucks because of the shield power relays). You seem to be going for a sniping fit, which will work well too and actually should require less tank.

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Cheers all for the responses, MJD was my next though until I get comfortable, my end goal is a brawl build.

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
(Specific mission hardener)
(Specific mission hardener)
100MN Afterburner II
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

This is my fit

(Working on getting my maneuver skills to V, then targeting and then finally BS to V)

Yeah, that’s pretty far from a brawling fit. Definitely lighter on the tank side than I would expect would be needed.

Given how damage oriented this is, and light on the tank, a mjd and sniping is definitely the way to go. The afterburner will not really get you the speed you need to get the distance needed to mitigate enough for your tank. Jumping away as soon as your enter a pocket would work way better.

Generally, I have found afterburners to be quite disappointing for BS.

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Cheers, ill replace the AB with a MJD, and give it ago.

It puts me out of sentry range I assume (at least for the garde) unsure about bouncer

Gardes are weird sentries… I mostly use them on a stratios to run event sites and such, when the enemies start at close range and stay there. For missions, at close range they’ll likely have troubles hitting small ships and they don’t hit anything at long range, so I don’t like them (unless I need to run L3s to get standings for a new corp after moving). Most rats that are vulnerable to thermal also are vulnerable to something else (usually kinetic), so I use other sentries instead.

With your two optimal range scripts, and the drone range augmentor, you should have an ok range. It probably will not be 100km for control, and might not be for optimal, but after you shoot a few missiles, the NPCs will be rushing at you and in range. Luckily, frigates are the fastest and the first you should kill, so they “range sort” themselves exactly according to target priority.

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