Local is counter by free intel of map.
Cloack is counter by … nothing.
Stop cry, AFK gameplay must be remove that all. I wait the annoucement for remove of AFK cloacking.
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Lolwut? How exactly does the map prevent your name from appearing in local and giving a “DOCK NOW” warning?
Cloack is counter by … nothing.
It’s countered by standing fleets, constantly moving within the PvE site so that the cloaked ship can’t get into tackle range, killboard research to determine the AFK player’s active hours, etc. When you say “there is no counter” what you actually mean is that there is no magic button you can press to instantly make your system 100% safe for RMT botting.
I wait the annoucement for remove of AFK cloacking.
You’re going to be waiting a long time for that. CCP has explicitly stated that they will not be changing anything about it until/unless local is removed, because CCP understands that removing AFK cloaking without removing local would result in an unacceptable level of safety for nullsec farmers.
Ok again :
Local give intel to people inside system, but people outside (so who are not here) could knwo wuth map what happen in the system (if you don’t know how, maybe it’s why you can’t catch people withotu cloack).
CLoack is a totally passive thing. People don’t spend effort to counter cloack YOU CAN T, they spend effort to counter people who attack/roam.
People spend time to make intel (yes they spend time it’s not magic) , so why cloacky people don’t make effort to spend time to ?
And ultimately : Problem is not intel, intel is good for the 2 side if you want fight. True problem is the mobility of PVE ship. We could have a tons of way to remove cloacking and offer a way to hunter who are bad to have targer. And this gameplay will be less “godlike” so it will have a better acceptance. Not the post to develop this here (but spoiler allert it will lead in an increase of PVP, ans increase of kind of ship to PVP).
So All AFK gameplay must disapear.
They remove drone one fine, let 's remove other.
Vote with your wallet. Oh, and don’t feed the gleeful trolls.
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I definitely prefer being called a troll than being unable to press F. 
Apparently you don’t understand what the word “counter” means because the two do not have anything to do with each other.
CLoack is a totally passive thing.
And then it accomplishes nothing. The only way to make use of cloaking is to actively play the game, if all you do is sit AFK in a safespot then everyone can ignore you.
We could have a tons of way to remove cloacking and offer a way to hunter who are bad to have targer.
{citation needed}
What exactly are these changes, besides removing local, that would prevent farming from being risk-free without causing major balance issues anywhere else?
You could be the twice.
Underappreciated comment. But the thing is it’s backwards thinking, it’s CCP who seem to want to turn it to idle clicker.
PVE gameplay is mostly not challenging, time consuming and plain boring. Idle. Has been for years.
But now they want “less afkable gameplay”, and what do they do? Do they overhaul missions, anoms, other sites, rats, to be more challenging and less predictable? Escalations that send you hack things, or do random stuff. Escalations that send several people to the same site to compete. Escalations/missions that set up players against each other if they chose to assist one faction or another. Make meaningful choices, to step down defeated, or step up to win. Dynamic events like they did 2-3 years ago, not bound to RL holidays, but able to be spawned like random escalations.
No, they just make people stare at their screens more. Clicking.
There are game design thingies like core game loop, flow state, positive/negative feedback loops, short/mid/long term goals, etc., that developers use to make players feel engaged and rewarded. For them to be intrinsically motivated to play the game.
Eve is not an action game where you mash combos in core loop. Core PVE loop is not the next rat you kill, but the next anom or mission you’ll run. I think its more strategy and tactics game. You strategize and prepare before you undock. You change tactics if interrupted by other players.
@CCP_Paradox you guys seem to be confusing cause and effect of people using PVE alts, people playing afk, and so solutions are not addressing the cause. Addressing effects inflicts unintended collateral damage though.
@Mike_Azariah you mentioned Orcas in Cosmos sites, but is it realy the “tool” or the “sandbox” issue? Are drones really that broken, or were Cosmos sites broken? CCP guys said on several occasions that they were aware players will find ways to break or minmax anything.
Rats with bounties in static sites respawning endlessly plus autoaggressing weapon system without need for ammo. What could go wrong? What did they expect?
BTW one could farm them with T1 laserboats around the clock with full attention. Still broken, wasn’t it?
You assume that this is the only thing that CCP will ever do to improve PvE instead of being a necessary (and long overdue) first step in that direction. This is a really bad assumption.
And let’s be honest here: a huge part of the problem with trying to overhaul PvE is the exact same people who are whining and crying about the game not playing itself for them anymore. They don’t want challenging or interesting PvE with unpredictability and choices, they want to endlessly farm the same menial content as efficiently as possible and anything that in any way hinders their efficiency is the cruelest of persecution.
You know better than that. This will affect every single pve drone user. In the abyss, in missions (especially those null sec cosmos missions where it helps to let light drones fly free to kill npc frigates while you use missiles/guns to kill battleships before they get close enough to neut you to death)
For my entire time in EVE, Drones have provided a semi-autonomous (if stupid) option that lets player split attention in pve. Now, because CCP can’t figure out simple ways to deal with the situation they are obviously addressing (afk null sec ratting), EVERYONE pays the price.
It’s exactly like who CCP wanted to end “skynet” fighters so they killed fighter assist for EVERYONE. Why is it so hard to otherwise smart posters to understand that some of us are reacting to CCP’s penchant for blanket nerfing affecting everyone instead of fixing the actual problem?
NPC dreads slaughter afk ratters and bots and offer interesting gameplay to those of us who are actually at the keyboard. The things they did with the Abyss made for more interesting, non-afkable pve. They SAID that the part of the point of Abyssal development was to see how they could make pve better in other areas.
But instead of expanding on proven things like the above mentioned dreads and anti-drone towers , we lose Drones ability to be semi-autonomous in ALL pve. They won’t kill drone assist that screws up soooo many things in pve and pvp and they won’t fix null anoms to be non-afkable, but they will screw over every single other use case for the things (again, just like the sky net thing).
It’s bad game development, It’s been the case for CCP for more than a decade and it never gets called out because many players don’t even notice it. How can we help them design better if we don’t even notice what’s happening?
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So lock the frigates and command your drones to engage them. It’s not that difficult.
EVERYONE pays the price.
No. People who suck at EVE pay the price. Competent players don’t need an AFK-friendly system where the game plays itself for you.
If doing something is wrong, it doesn’t matter if it’s the 1st thing they do, or the last. Since the beginning of my EVE time, Drones have behaved like pets in other games.
Now somehow that has to go away because CCP doesn’t seem to know how to deal with some pretty simple issues that they already dealt with in the past.
If I were to guess, I’d say it’s probably because CCP guys tend to be pvp oriented (the CCP devs who used to be players are all PVP guys, right?). Which is why their PVE decisions tend to be…off in major ways.
Hell, if they came up with some fluff that said “due to deadspace interference, Capsuleer Drones will not auto aggress in NULL SEC deadspace sites” I’d be 100% fine with that. But CCP is (again) changing something for everyone when only a few people are the problem, and it’s stupid.
Fortunately this is doing something right, so your argument fails.
The main thing is, that the CCP who developed the game way back then is different from the current CCP.
The new CCP made abyssals and other dynamic and interactive PvE content, with good isk/effot/reward rations.
Should they overhaul anomalies, missions, etc? Yes.
Will the same people complaining in this thread complain that PvE content now is too hard and undoable, or requires much more attention than before? Definitely.
If you are talking about ECM, concerns have been raised already, and a suggestion has been made, and taken to CCP by the CSM to see what they think about that.
If not and you just rely on drones auto attacking everything while you shoot bigger ships, learn to deal with priority targets, train target management and advanced target management, and lock all rats as soon as a wave spawn, like 3 battleships, 3 cruisers, 6 frigates, and so on.
That’s how I have been running lvl4 missions in a barguest, and let me tell you, it’s not impossible or hard at all.
And you assume they will improve PVE.
I expect them to improve PVE first, not punish players for engaging current state PVE.
Or so you assume.
You whine that PVE is a menial grind, yet you cheer for it to be even grindier. No challenge added, just more locking time, more drone slack time. Hypocrite. Your imaginary competent friend are competent at what, waiting, staring?
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So use some of your limited locks in (a cosmos site that has 60+ npcs in it) to kill the frigates that YESTERDAY you didn’t have to lock because your drones would kill them while you pair down the battleships.
That’s called a step backwards. In those situations I’ll just MJD away (I fly a Machariel) and whittle them down. But for the last 13 years I haven’t had to do that , now we are all going to be punished because someone figured out you could afk myrms and ishtars for money in null sec…
It’s not the end of the world, it’s just bloody idiotic. It’s a replay of the Blanket nerf that killed skynet (and every other interesting use of fighters pre-skynet)
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Is that your “simple solution”?
Just put an NPC dread in every nullsec combat anomaly?
What actually is the problem? It seems like your complaints are mostly coming from this difference.
CCP is addressing low attention afk gameplay. To them, that’s the problem.
To you, it seems specifically only limited to Nullsec afk farming, which is NOT the specific problem CCP is addressing.
This is an improvement. A small improvement, but still an improvement. And if you think that having to actively play the game instead of passively watch as the game plays itself for you is “punishment” then why are you playing a game you obviously hate?
Or so you assume.
No, I read their own comments on the subject. Look at all the rage fits thrown over triglavian spawns in highsec, abyssal PvP that can’t be farmed with near-zero chance of losing your ship, etc.
No challenge added
No, small challenge added. It’s very minor but at least it’s better than the zero challenge of launching drones and waiting for the game to finish playing itself for you.
Sorry, are you so terrible at EVE that you can’t figure out how to make a target queue and ensure that new targets are added to the queue just after each target dies? This is a basic PvE skill we’re talking about.
2 Likes
i guess your a botter?