[Update 19.6.YC122] Triglavian Planetary Operations in Gallente and Amarr space

[Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci]

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/galactic-hour-news-roundup-triglavian-conquests-and-edencom-fortresses-edition/

The 15th’s news brought with it our first real look at what the Triglav are doing on planets, in two very different examples: the systems of Vale (Gallente Space) and Raravoss (Amarr).

VALE:

–Communications have remained stable and unhindered.
–The Triglav have landed on the four livable planets present in the system.
–These planets are home to large numbers of inhabitants.
–They have not been reported to have threatened or approached any population centers.
–Their only reported aggressive action was taken in response to an attack on Triglav overflights.
–The system’s inhabitants are no longer posturing aggressively to the invaders.

RARAVOSS:

–Communications with settlements have been lost
–Triglav have landed on the system’s barren planets, home to industrial settlements.
–Before comms were lost, reports surfaced of Triglav bombardment of port Sarum & landing.
–Rumors of EDENCOM-AEGIS-Arkombine Clone Soldier deployment are circulating.

The differences between these two systems’ targeted planets, while troubling, are extremely interesting to look at; for one, what are the goals of the Triglav? At this time, no actions have been taken against the populations of Vale’s many livable planets outside of responses to aggression, while with Raravoss, the Triglav immediately launched assaults on the system’s barren planets’ settlements - all of which are centered around resource gathering and other industrial activities.

Why these differences? The baseliner human populations are, given every example, not the target of the Triglav invasion forces - the stars are their paramount focus, and the planets and their people are a secondary concern. It is widely expected that the Triglav will soon begin to apply wide-scale mutaplasmidic biodaption to the systems’ planetside populations, in order to harden them against increasing environmental hostility in the wake of their stars’ darkening. This is a prediction readily supported by the numerous reports of Triglav environment facilities that preceded their Invasion’s third “chapter”, which heavily suggest that the Triglav may in fact be taking steps to limit the damages caused by what they doubtlessly see as an absolutely necessary operation - their stellar harvesting and return to the “Ancient Domains”.

But what of Raravoss? Why have they invaded only one system’s planets in force?

Decisive strikes against infrastructure, and a total loss of communications with the Amarr industrial installations on the planets; are the Triglav aiming to collect resources from these planets for some reason, while ignoring any resources they might take more easily from the unpopulated planets, or the planets of Vale? Or is there perhaps a deeper reason?

Amarr industrial facilities, mining mineral-rich planets - what might you find there?

One answer to that question: Slaves.

Thus far, all observed facets of Triglav society suggest a paramount upholding of the concept of human will, a view that is core to their very way of life - extending into the right to prove oneself against others, in the universal noema of proving in order to winnow all aspects of their society toward their best possible form.

Then, consider the absolute revulsion the Triglav exhibit toward Sansha’s Nation; the hivelinked Nation slaves are seen by the Triglav as an abomination perverse enough to necessitate the creation of a novel Troika in Kresnik Svarog, whose sole mandate is to purge all instances of this seen profound wrongness. Nation slaves are a direct threat to the Triglav methods of life in the Troika - and are completely dominated by their master, in an utter subjugation of human will.

The Triglav have aggressively moved to invade these Amarr installations, where countless slaves far outnumbering their Amarr masters toil away in perpetuity - one might ponder the Triglavs’ true aim in this system, given all the above.

The concept of slavery may very well prove to be utter anathema to the way of life the Triglav subscribe to in their “Flow of Vyraj”, subjugating others in an unproven and perverse domination - poshlost.

---

Independent investigation of Raravoss, should any such efforts be undertaken by those outside of EDENCOM’s circle, may yet shed more light on the truths of the goals of the Triglav in this system and beyond. As events continue to unfold, we must explore every route that opens itself toward a more comprehensive understanding of a civilization that has emerged from the murky history of the cluster.

[Vasily_Degtyaryov]

My apologies, comrade Anteovnuecchi, but I must criticize your theory on a few points.

1. You mentioned, as far as we all know to be correct, that the special operations troika Kresnik Svarog was tasked to “extirpate” Sansha’s “Nation”, as well as, perhaps, other elements considered “poshlost”. Yet, if slavery, or some methods thereof, are viewed negatively to the point where they wish to eradicate it, why have we still not seen any of Kresnik Svarog’s forces in Raravoss?

2. Forced mutaplasmid biomodification and experimentation also goes against the same notion of free will, yet based on earlier observations they are theorized to perform these on massive scales on various population centers.

3. Not all slaves are in fact slaves against their will. A huge number of the servants of the Empire are so willingly because they want salvation in the afterlife, and to give selflessly to the Empire like any decent person would.

4. It’s always about slavery, isn’t it? Slavery is the sole thing that defines the Amarr, it’s absolutely the only possible reason the heathen triangles could be attacking the Empire differently from the other powers, is that it? Of course it’s not because the Imperial Navy is by far the largest threat to their little invasion games, of course it’s not that the Empire has the most valuable resources or the most claim to space. No, it’s obviously slaves, as it always is. Is this really the limit of our collective imaginations?

takes a deep breath

That said, if what you’re saying ends up being true, well… I’ve never had slaves, for I do believe that the choice of eternal damnation is one’s own to make, and had no particularly great need of them. But Zorya, Kresnik and their pet troikas may just be the first, and I’ll find a use for them.

[Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci]

A response, friend:

1. Kresnik is specifically tasked with the erasure of Nation influence, not of poshlost in general.

2. It’s likely the Invasions themselves are seen as a proper proving of the systems as a whole - the Invasions have long been referred to as a Liminal Proving, and the Triglav believe their mission here to be of paramout importance to the survival of their race. The forced bioadaption of a population may be seen by them as a recompense for the strangeness they’re inflicting on the stars of systems reaching Final Liminality in proven glorification over EDENCOM and empire forces, a measure to allow the baseliners to live on, though obviously such a forced modification will come with its own strangeness and unwantedness.

3. I’ll answer this later down, or leave a response to another - there’s much information to say for this that I’m not certain I can rightfully dispense.

4. The concern between Raravoss and Vale is that, despite both systems having populated planets, Vale’s people are being left entirely alone at this time, while the Triglav immediately descended to the surface of the worlds of Raravoss, striking decisively against ground targets and invading, leading to a total loss of communication at this time. The difference is stark, and the reasons are curious - as there’s little to indicate that the Triglav would pursue materials on populated planets in one system and not another, while still continuing to harvest stars and asteroid belts for whatever materials are necessary for their efforts concurrently.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci

–Their only reported aggressive action was taken in response to an attack on Triglav overflights.

I do not think it is reasonable to consider “we extinguished your sun so that now all your planets face a perpetual winter, famines and mass death” as “not aggressive”, myself.

@Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci

Nation slaves are a direct threat to the Triglav methods of life in the Troika - and are completely dominated by their master, in an utter subjugation of human will.

I understand where you come from with the slavery theory, and it would be lovely if true. However, I think the evidence we have points to the Triglavians opposing to certain direct-brain mind-subjugating methods - Sansha’s hivemind, maybe TCMCs in the Amarr, but to deduce a general anti-slavery mindset from what we have seen so far does not to me seem reasonable.

The Triglavians hijack groups of people and place them in testing environments without consulting them; they take over planets and change then inhabitable to current populations; they seize means of production without fair compensation.

Their method and what little they have communicated points, to me, towards the idea that you must not ‘artificially’ subjugate someone’s mind by direct-brain control means, but that it is just fine to subjugate someone if you prove you are worthy - ie, can do it by force without them being able to stop you.

Which is, in fact, not an uncommon stance in the Amarr Empire, either, where some faction shun Vitoc and TCMCs and all that as non-traditional, and hold that if you cannot hold your slaves by conventional means you do not deserve to keep them.

[Niriam_DoT]

This anti-slavery theory could possibly explain the comms silence in Raravoss.
It is completely understandable, that Amarr forces would not like the information about triglavian stance on slavery to leak out in any way.

[Archibald_Dougans]

Sir, while it is indeed interesting to note the differences between the apparent actions of the Triglavian forces, I believe you have overlooked an important difference between the planets that may be very significant.

The nature of Imperial mining settlements, on barren worlds, dictates a pattern of architecture that is radically different from that of a habitable planet in the Empire, let alone a Gallentean planet.

On a barren world, the population living in enclosed spaces on the surface or underground, there are key strategic points that do not really have a counterpart on a temperate world. Being reliant on processed air, water, and food, the population can be controlled with far less of a policing presence than would be the case on a temperate world.

A typical Imperial mining settlement has a ‘Citadel’ of sorts, containing the main administrative hub, as well as the central air and water processing facilities. It may also have a rapid-transit system located within it, be it a monorail, or airstrip. Certainly the transport hub would be nearby the citadel. The outlying districts of the settlement rely on the citadel for air and water, which reduces the chances of uprisings amongst the populace. The citadel also tends to be fortified against attack, and may include significant anti-surface, anti-air, and anti-orbital weaponry, dependent on the size of the settlement.

In contrast, a Gallentean temperate world, there are no such key central facilities that the population is immediately dependent on, and military bases tend to be located outside population centres.

This makes Imperial mining settlements on barren worlds rather simpler to occupy than a Gallentean temperate world. The Triglavian forces would need to occupy the citadels on the mining settlements, using ground forces. They could not really afford to leave them in Imperial hands, due to the anti-orbital weapons, but at the same time, could not simply eradicate them from orbit, as they could with Gallentean military installations, as that would also destroy the air and water facilities.

Should the citadels be seized, the Triglavians are then in control of the settlement, and can maintain that control with a minimum garrison.

A Gallentean temperate world, requires a far larger policing presence to control the planet, which may be disproportionately expensive compared to the value of any resources that could be obtained from said planet.

I hope this has been helpful.

[Morgana_Tsukiyo]

@Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci

Then, consider the absolute revulsion the Triglav exhibit toward Sansha’s Nation; the hivelinked Nation slaves are seen by the Triglav as an abomination perverse enough to necessitate the creation of a novel Troika in Kresnik Svarog , whose sole mandate is to purge all instances of this seen profound wrongness. Nation slaves are a direct threat to the Triglav methods of life in the Troika - and are completely dominated by their master, in an utter subjugation of human will.

If you have a whole society operating on an infomorph streaming plataform, or at least conjoint implants, any system that would disrupt the flow (ha) of data or corrupt any of the infomorphs involved, like the Sansha are able to do, would be quite detrimental for said society, even if it happened in a horizontal network instead of user/admin.

That said, they appear to be a society that values will and the hability to implement it in effective ways, specially under hars or unorthodox conditions (they do like provings to maintain social cohesion), so any enslaved person (no one is a slave, they are people subjugated by other people) would likely be considered unfit.

On the other hand, it could be precisely a proving ground to see what the enslaved people would do to their captors within a more equal playing field.

Without proper monitoring however, we have to wait on news sources and official reports to get updates, even biased ones.

[Vasily_Degtyaryov]

@Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci

1. Kresnik is specifically tasked with the erasure of Nation influence, not of poshlost in general.

That is indeed also my understanding. Are you then implying that slavers are a, well… sidequest of the main invading forces?

@Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci

2. It’s likely the Invasions themselves are seen as a proper proving of the systems as a whole - the Invasions have long been referred to as a Liminal Proving, and the Triglav believe their mission here to be of paramout importance to the survival of their race. The forced bioadaption of a population may be seen by them as a recompense for the strangeness they’re inflicting on the stars of systems reaching Final Liminality in proven glorification over EDENCOM and empire forces, a measure to allow the baseliners to live on, though obviously such a forced modification will come with its own strangeness and unwantedness.

I fail to see how presumed recompense is reconcilable with the forced nature of the bio-adaptation at the same time that they consider free will of the highest value in society.

@Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci

4. The concern between Raravoss and Vale is that, despite both systems having populated planets, Vale’s people are being left entirely alone at this time, while the Triglav immediately descended to the surface of the worlds of Raravoss, striking decisively against ground targets and invading, leading to a total loss of communication at this time. The difference is stark, and the reasons are curious - as there’s little to indicate that the Triglav would pursue materials on populated planets in one system and not another, while still continuing to harvest stars and asteroid belts for whatever materials are necessary for their efforts concurrently.

I must side with comrade Dougans on this one.

As for my third point, I wish to thank comrade Rhiannon for expanding on it with her clear assessment. The point is of course that the method may be more important than the result.

[Yaar_Podshipnik]

I’m trying to understand why the Triglavians are dimming the suns, thus creating a need for complex bioadaptations in the populace. After some thought, and assuming they are rational, I don’t think that the dimming is end goal, it is a rather unpleasant side effect.
In my opinion, Triglavians remove something from the stars (isogen-5/precursor material to it?) in order to protect life. They might fear an enemy that could supernova a star, which would wipe not only the system itself, but everything linked by star gates. And given how tightly-packed the Eden cluster is, a supernova in one system would affect a large chunk of the cluster. In effect, I think they are disarming the bombs we’re sitting on, even though in doing so, they are creating struggle and strife. It’s better to be a bit cold, then completely dead.

[Arrendis]

@Yaar_Podshipnik

In my opinion, Triglavians remove something from the stars (isogen-5/precursor material to it?) in order to protect life.

They are farming their power cores. We have directly observed the creation of those power cores at these facilities. There is no need to go adding in some noble motive for their actions based on nothing but wishful conjecture that lets you cast them as righteous saviors who should be helped.

[Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci]

An Update:

Today’s news brings further information that makes the picture more interesting.

It’s now very clear that the Triglav are heavily targeting industrial facilities as a seeming rule, which does erode my thoughts on the slavery aspect. And again, as with Vale, the more populated planets are instead being mostly left alone by the Triglav and automata that have landed among them.

One line of information is, however, very strange:

• Qilfim Ur-Sarum, Holder of Raravoss, Reportedly Seeking Asylum in Federation; House Sarum Response to Inquiries: “There is no such person.”

A holder of Raravoss, but one that either does not exist somehow or has, instead, been purged from the Book of Records, is being reported as seeking asylum with the Gallente. With no communications from the planets of Raravoss, this highly unusual development may be a key to understanding what the Triglav are doing in the system of Raravoss specifically…

Why would this previous holder be seeking asylum with the Gallente? Did he perhaps do something against the policies of the Amarr within his holdings in Raravoss, industrial settlements certainly fueled by the labor of the enslaved, and now must escape?

[Morgana_Tsukiyo]

There is a juicy bit

Mordu’s Legion Command Denies GalNet Claims of “Rogue Warclones” Operating in Raravoss and Sakenta to “Acquire Ancient Star Technology”

Could some of the planets be a cache of ancient tech they (ENDECOM/Triglavinas) are after?

[Lasairiona_Raske]

I would like to clarify that Mr. Anteovnuecci is acting as a private entity and his views do not reflect those of Arataka Research Consortium.

Lasairiona Raske
Head of HR and Diplomacy

[Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci]

Indeed, hence the not marking the thread with an [ARC] tag - though it might be a good idea to add disclaimers time to time, given earlier issues in another thread.

This is a personal issue-focusing, naturally - but the contents of the mysteries being looked at are far from concerning me alone.

[Haria_Haritimado]

Respected Uriel

Thank you for looking into the planetary situations. Inspired by the ideas in this channel I tried to catch up on the topic. I want to summarize the bits and pieces by planetary invasion focus (taken from World News YC122-06-15 and YC122-06-19):

• Sakenta: “The many barren planets of Sakenta are the site of thousands of mining, manufacturing and assembly colonies, settlements and transhipment nodes”; - “The two temperate planets of Sakenta III and V have long functioned as population centers”; - “a system focused on planetary resource extraction, manufacturing and support for State military”; - “the most intense ground combat is reported to have taken place on the heavily-industrialized worlds of Sakenta IV and VI, […] seize mining, reprocessing and manufacturing facilities”; - “The heavily populated worlds of Sakenta III and V have also been the scene of Triglavian landings, […] large numbers of drones […] engaged in extensive surveying efforts.”
• Vale: “The heavily populated planets of Vale are experiencing widespread disruption and panic as the Triglavian conquest of the system makes itself increasingly felt”; - “A rich system, self-sufficient in agriculture and most types of planetary industry”; - “FTL communications with the populated planets and other colonial sites in Vale have been maintained”; - “with the Triglavian approach to utilization and administration of the system appearing to differ from that seen in Raravoss”; - “Federal Marines base on Vale II was obliterated from orbit by a Zirnitra-class Dreadnought after it opened fire on Triglavian overflights in its territorial zone.”
• Raravoss: “In stark constrast to the contact maintained with the Vale system, a complete silence has fallen over the first system to fall to the Triglavian invaders”; - “A largely industrial system with most settlements underground on its mineral rich barren planets”; - “Raravoss III, the most heavily-exploited and colonized planet of the system”; - “Port Sarum, Raravoss III orbital defenses neutralized, enemy landing in force, orbital launch facility lost.”
• Navula: Nalvula’s fourth planet is relatively well populated for a low-security corporate colonial world.

I carefully try to glean and paraphrase the basic assumprion based on these observations:

• Triglavian planetary operations seem to focus on barren planets with heavy industrializations or temperate planets with large population centers.
• Barren industry planets are taken with force and precision (Raravoss I - IV, Sakenta IV, VI)). Temperate planets are occupied with less aggression (defenders complied on Vale II, IV, V, VI) and focus on monitoring/surveying (Sakenta III, V).
• One major difference between Vale and Raravoss seems to be the character as either population center or industry hub.
• Loss of communication in Raravoss largely unexplained.

The interest of the Convocation in population centers and heavy industrialized planets might already give us a hint. Seize production and resource capacities as well as the population. We can continue to speculate here. Anyway, both planet types (barren and temperate) share some priority resources commonly found on these planets. After a survey we see the following composition:

• The targeted temperate worlds mostly provide Aqueous Liquids (27-50%), Carbon Compounds (25-42%), Microorganisms (10-31%).
• The targeted barren worlds mostly provide Carbon Compounds (27-31%), Microorganisms (25-29%), Base Metals (23-30%) as well as minor caches of noble metals and other resources.

I currently believe that the planets fullfill a more general strategic value of two different kinds: control over population and production capacity. However, there is a possibility that specific planetary resources are also of interest for the ongoin campaign and system fortification, probably linked to environmental manipulations, mutaplasmid or the construction of orbital or planetary structures.

[Aria_Jenneth]

I’d like to propose a third possible consideration, ma’am: environmental familiarity. The Triglavians, so far as we can tell, come from a profoundly hostile environment. It may be that there are few or no remaining terrestrial worlds in Triglavian space, that even if they were that way at the start it wasn’t possible to keep their biospheres going. The Triglavians seem to be masters of microbiology and adaptive mutation, but that doesn’t mean that they’ve applied the latter successfully across many animal species. For example, if bioadaptives alter the biology enough to limit sexual reproduction, they may be dependent on cloning or similar tech to reproduce. That’s maybe doable for humans, but what about squirrels, or carp? Lush, complex ecosystems may have become … much simpler.

It’s likely that the Triglavians themselves mostly live underground and in asteroid facilities, just like the people of Raravoss. If that’s their usual lifestyle, a barren system might be perfect for their needs, while a fully-terraformed world with a complex biosphere could be confusing, even terrifying.

And also doomed, because: sun turning black. Plant life failing, animals soon to starve. Not worth investing in.

They may be focusing their efforts where they can expect to move in immediately and live in comfort indefinitely.

[Annisir_Kaugan]

They are very much focused on resource acquisition. I believe its a key pointer that life in the Abyss is harsh, or maybe that they contributed to that state.

[Arrendis]

@Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci

Why would this previous holder be seeking asylum with the Gallente? Did he perhaps do something against the policies of the Amarr within his holdings in Raravoss, industrial settlements certainly fueled by the labor of the enslaved, and now must escape?

He lost.

His was the first system completely lost to the Triglavians in the Empire, and he survived that loss. Do you think the Houses wouldn’t have made an example of him to highlight the price of failure? Do you think he believes they’d be lenient?

He knows how his liege Arrach looks upon things. He clearly didn’t want to be the target of House Sarum’s latest ego-pain.

[Umbre_Fallenstar]

@Aria_Jenneth

And also doomed, because: sun turning black. Plant life failing, animals soon to starve. Not worth investing in.

I am still in the simulation phase so I can only report early analysis, but on an average temperate planet, the dimming of the sun, while a certain drastic change, won’t extinguish life in a few weeks, and on some planets like Vale VI it can even be months before the first real changes are visible).

Please don’t misinterpret my words.
I’m not saying that we don’t have to worry, that no consequences will be met or anything from the sort.

Just that, “astrophysically” speaking, as the current data show it, no immediate threat is to expect from the dimming of the suns, the social consequences of such event will probably cause much more destruction and deaths than the event in itself.

[Arrendis]

Does this analysis only involve average global temperatures, or does it also include the reduced photosynthetic activity of planetary flora, including much of the algae and cyanobacteria?