Among capsuleers, more often than not wars begin because people get bored. Or, to put it another way…
Wars begin because people want to kill other people. Different groups of capsuleers have the same, not divergent, interests: killing people. So they kill one another.
And that still holds true for non-capsuleers. Maintaining mutually belligerent positions makes war inevitable for the sides involved. Being a capsuleer just affords the ability to dispense with the patriotic propaganda and justifications that make the desire to kill the other side socially acceptable.
I actually agree with this. Arguments shall be resolved by reason and logic, nothing else. Attempt to solve dispute with fists, fights, or insults and personal attacks - it just shows you have lost the argument already and your following position is not important anymore.
The goal of duels - and for me, I mean duels of Honor - is to defend one’s Honor. They are arranged between two people who value their honor. Their meaning is to show that you are willing to risk your life - and it really doesn’t matter who wins, it’s about getting the satisfaction, not convincing others in anything. The only way to lose a duel of Honor is to refuse to fight or violate the terms after the fight starts. Shall you lose duel of honor, shall you win it - you prove your honor. Shall you refuse it or violate terms - you show dishonor and thus lose.
The might never makes you right. But the might might help you survive when you defend your Honor.
How about competing in solving differential equations in time? Or maybe a nice game of chess? Or mindclash?
Speaking about, I never tried mindclash myself yet, but always wanted.
Well, I simply disagree with you and hard on that in the grim darkness of the future there is only war. Only people who revel in war or combat for their own sake would even want such a future.
Edit: And I can’t help but feel a sense of derision coming from some of your words - maybe I am just reading them wrong or maybe not - but surely you do value logistics and combat support? We can’t all be combat gods you know, but can be useful in other ways.
I can’t help but feel that Veiki-noona is the last of a dying breed amongst capsuleers.
I believe that is Ms Gesakaarin’s default form of address.
Not really.
She might just be the last who’s really upfront about it. There’s plenty of us still around who enjoy fighting for fighting’s sake.
Although, every couple of years it becomes fashionable to be simply too good for that kind of thing. Spirits, fighting is so messy and so pointless, I would never indulge in that sort of behaviour boo hoo. Why can’t we all just get along?
WON’T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?
Eurgh.
It’s so insipid, and false, and boring. Why should capsuleers hesitate, even for a second, to resort to violence? Violence is our default state of being. We were made for war!
The cluster would be a far more interesting, lively, eventful place if more capsuleers thought like Veikitamo.
Yes!
YES!
Everything about this post holds merit! Capsuleers have the potential to become the most fearsome combatants on any battlefield. The weapons systems of starships in our hand are thrice as deadly than in the hands of any mortal. Control over our vessels are sharp and agile, allowing us to make spit second decisions in the heat of combat!
But these perks aren’t exclusive to those that just want to bash their head against anything and everything. Builders can also benefit from mastering combat to defend what they build or invest in.
Capsuleers can dominate markets.
Build entire cities in space from raw materials.
Brave the hostile unknown.
Why must capsuleers be passive and not ignore the call of battle? To earn our fortune and honor in combat much like others earn in the professions mentioned before?
Mmhm. Just a fad. It’s not like I’ve held my views for years. Almost as long as you’ve been a capsuleer yourself, actually. Besides, while I am nowadays a pacifist, I am not a passivist. I still equip my ships for combat and will respond to violence towars me, obviously. I will defend people I care about without hesitation. But I don’t go looking for someone to beat up just because of some inane thrill you seem to look for.
You know what’s insipid, false and boring? Yelling how capsuleers were made for war - a lot of capsuleers never fight anyone. There are other venues one can become a capsuleer than just military programs, as I believe I explained not too many messages ago. And if we really want to nitpick, we don’t know what capsuleers were really made for - Jove created the capsuleers and never really shouted their intentions from the rooftops. That the empires employed most capsuleers they create as warriors does not mean that is what capsuleers were created for, especially if you are an independent and don’t share ties with the empire that spawned you, anymore.
Mm. Just ■■■■ everyone and everything else as long as your life is more interesting and lively, right?
See above. What I’m saying people should be allowed to be passive, without this sort of “grr we like violence if u dont ur dumb” - dipshit talk.
I never claimed nobody had to be a warrior. But we should not shun our desire to use our new found strength for warfare.
Much like you want to be a pacifist
Some want to go to war.
I do not mock peace. It is a time to rest and reflect after the smoke clears and both sides of a conflict are exhausted. They look to where they failed and prepare themselves properly for the next cycle. We rebuild our strength and push on.
Care to explain how humanity has been fighting one another since the maker’s universe gave life to our species. Yet, here we are…Our race spans all across the known cluster and even in the darkness of wormhole space. War does not stop us, it pushes us foward.
War is simply apart of us. We have grown up with it. It is what nature demands of us to push humanity to survive! The need for us to overcome those with conflicting interests. If peace dominated humanity, we would become complicate and progress without urgency.
Right, yes, He3-stabilized high-bandwidth FTL neural/starship control systems interlink technology slipped to Ishukone at the height of the Caldari war of independence. I can’t imagine what their intent was.
I don’t necessarily completely disagree. But the problem is this warfare is most of the time useless bickering between ourselves. You might be surprised to hear me say this, but wars and violence do have their uses and place, but, we should aim for maximum efficiency. Yet most capsuleer violence is, while on the other hand in some ways very efficient, on other hand just incredible waste of talent and resources and time.
And without those who desire to see wars end, we would all have perished in our home systems. I think it is important we have views that do not just glorify violence as be all end all. Also, our access to wormhole space is in no way a merit of ours, but some curious happenstances that opened the spaces for us, so I wonder why you even mentioned those.
It is a well known fact that war pushes technology forward, but I hope you are not implying that it is the only motivator for progress. Someone invented the wheel, and it wasn’t so that they could make fighting vehicles, but to lessen their workload. Necessity is the mother of invention, they say, not war.
Again, I partly agree but partly, strongly disagree, especially on your latter implication that peace would lead to stagnation.
Please, don’t play dumb, because I know you’re not. Jove created the capsule originally for themselves, and I can only guess that while the capsule technology can be a powerful tool of war, that was not its original purpose.
The original capsule was basicly a one way trip to a wetgrave if I remember my history lessons right, but again, it can be assumed that the Jove did in this case gift it to the Ishukone because they did not wish to see the Caldari be subjugated by the Gallente - for reasons known entirely to themselves.
Well-- that’s true. Most of those who don’t are weapon manufacturers, though.
I understand if not everyone feels we’re a warrior caste. (For one thing we’re pretty obviously not exactly a caste in the traditional sense.) … only, even our best scientists, the ones who push the margins instead of just improving blueprints (often the ones for weapons), are fighters. Our best builders fortify themselves with massive fleets.
And, there’s nowhere a capsule shines like in squeezing better performance out of a starship. That can be used for a lot of stuff-- that’s absolutely, definitely true-- but there’s nowhere it shines so clearly as in combat.
Unlike some of my old comrades I have a little trouble with the idea that combat is its own reason, that nothing else is needed, even if, substantially, I’m not so different from them. But, this much seems pretty much past debating, to me: collectively, we’re a weapon; combat pilots are just the blade, which weapon manufacturers and researchers support. Money is used to wield us, to direct us to our targets.
It’s why we exist. Even our fights against each other can be described as a self-sharpening process.
To accept that, is to accept that, directly or indirectly, we’ll all be killers. Even left sheathed, a sword is still a weapon for taking life.
For good or ill, that’s what we are.
Please excuse me, I’ll go bang my head on an actual wall now instead of doing it just metaphorically in this discussion.
I’m sorry, but that is crap. You’re taking what is essentially the pinnacle of human development in terms of technological interfacing, space ship command and so much more and reducing it to a simple destructive function. That’s incredibly short sighted and immature.
You might as well apply this thinking to everything. Why make fireworks when we can just make guns? Why make eating utensils when we can just make knives?
It’s an idiotic fallacy.
I don’t refuse to fight because I’m “too cool for it”. I don’t enjoy it and for the most part I don’t see the point. Especially against other capsuleers. It’s utterly wasteful.
no.
Nope.
Essentially, because if we all did this, the first bastard to make a gun instead of a firework will leave the rest without any food to use their utensils on.
Why is everything so black and white Jevylraia? Why can’t we have both? Why must we constantly insist that we can only have this one thing, we can only be this one thing, this one thing must be our entire focus and the only thing that matters?
I fight with a purpose in mind. Not careless destruction for the sake of it. Many others do. Some want to protect home. Some want to crush something that they see as a threat to their own. Some must expand to support the weight of their people. Someone will always be using resources for their own agenda. Other will see it as a waste because they do not agree with that agenda. The question is, would they fight to take those resources and put them to a use they deem more productive? Or just let them waste these resources.
But is that tech of quality? War can test it…
War will test your infrastructure
War will test your logistical capabilities
War will test your defenses
War will test your ability to control the turbulence of your economy
Above all else, war will push humanity’s will to survive.
And total war would lead to extinction.
I don’t shun peace. Balance is key.
Capsuleers immediately provide a military advantage to whichever group has them. They don’t necessarily provide an industrial one (ORE was doing just fine before capsuleers arrived, as was the Amarr Navy shipbuilders) They don’t provide a cultural advantage, or a scientific one. Capsuleers offer one, very specific, advantage to a group, and that is the ability to ■■■■ all over non-capsuleers.