There is simple test to check and diferentiate.
All it takes is to see this image and ask how that person feels, negative response indicates Nefantar, positive indicates Ammatar:
There is also the second test where negative response like “hate, ridicule” indicates Nefantar, positive like “joy, pride” indicates Ammatar:
Of course if person is honest with answering questions. There is also option to check brain activity for scientific accuracy.
I dunno, I’ve known plenty of Amarr who’d look at that and think ‘tacky, gaudy, overdone, what are you compensating for?’
Maybe they were spies?
The second one was just funny. Yay for stereotyping amarr!
Which is why I specifically used the words ‘ethnic Nefantar’ to talk about people of Nefantar descent who are not part of the Nefantar Tribe. The race and the tribe are not the same thing. Just like the race and the Ammatar are not the same thing.
As for misrepresentation, it would be misrepresentation for an ethnic Nefantar born and raised in the core Amarr territories to self-identify as Ammatar (or, likewise, to self-identify as a member of the Nefantar Tribe while not carrying the appropriate tribal naming marks). In Amarr territories, Ammatar refers to people from or living in the Mandate, and, more traditionally, the group of ethnic Nefantar who freely aligned with the Empire. It does not, in Amarr, refer to just any Amarr-loyal Nefantar (or any Amarr-loyal Minmatar - I’ve been erroneously called Ammatar on multiple occasions), nor to the Nefantar Tribe. It technically could still be used to refer to people from the Mandate, whether ethnic Nefantar or otherwise, who went to the Republic (they are Ammatar expats), but I don’t imagine anyone on either side wants to use it in that capacity.
No, I did it deliberately, mostly because it irks you slightly.
Obviously. But from an outside perspective those of Nefantar Tribe are Nefantar and Ammatar are Ammatar. This should be quite simple.
CONCORD.
CONCORD dot? Isn’t adding a dot to the alliance name sooo YC 11something?
Uhm… yeah?
I didn’t get anything. Probably on account of not having done anything. But I’ve got things for doing nothing since birth so you can imagine it still comes as a bit of a blow.
Much like how these were handed out, no?
A brief observation on these postscripts:
Abolitionism requires not only the disapproval of slavery, but also the active rejection of all of slavery’s effects.
Anyone living in the Empire, interacting with its politics, partaking of its slavery-generated goods, and promoting its religion, is directly supporting, encouraging, and funding slavery.
Ms. Jenneth does not qualify as an abolitionist.
By this standard, it is impossible for anyone living in the Empire, much less a citizen, to be an Abolitionist… including those Amarr who are actively working to end the practice completely. No external force can be successful in this short of total war and the utter decimation of the Amarr Empire, but—despite the long odds against them—there is an internal movement within the Empire to reform its socio-economic model into one that does not involve slavery. Dismissing them outright is a mistake.
Why?
Let me repeat my question from another topic: Why would these people be any more successful then anyone else over thousands and thousands of years? Because they’ve got a shiny capsule? I really don’t think that’l matter. At all.
What, precisely, are these groups doing to counter slavery within the Empire and what has been the actual, measurable benefit to the cause of abolishing slavery? I would be most intrigued to hear of this.
I don’t mean the capsuleers. The capsuleers are isolated, insulated from the rest of Amarr society. Even the Capsuleer Holders… they have no impact on the rest of the Amarr titled classes.
It’s the baseliners, the people who maintain, day in and day out, relationships with their peers among the Amarr populace… those people are the ones you shouldn’t discount. Even if they’re not ultimately successful in abolishing slavery, if all they can do is make a few more people consider their position, get a few slaves released, or treated like people instead of livestock…
… don’t discount that. Not one of those people who get free, who don’t die in agonizing pain, who have just a little more hope for their children… none of those people are meaningless. None of those people are ‘nothing’. And even if that’s all they accomplish, that’s more than you’ll accomplish by pushing them toward abandoning their efforts with your dismissal.
Just because they can’t do enough doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything.
Yes, I will discount that, because that’s just another excuse that everybody holds up to not do anything. “Oh if we can just make them more comfortable…”
Look, I get it, it’s better then nothing, but a lot of people go further then that and proceed to do absolutely nothing more, and that IS wrong. And quite frankly, they are NOT abolitionists. If you nurture an empire that runs off slavery, life off the fruit of slave labor, contribute and support an Empire that practices slavery, you are NOT an abolitionist, and if all you can muster are half-arsed attempts to “not have it be as bad as it could be”, you are part of the problem. Sorry, Aria and company.
That just makes you not the biggest problem. You are still complicit. Doubly so in the case of capsuleers, who routinely go quite a bit further then merely tacitly supporting the Empire and outright fight for it on the battlefield all while pretending they disagree with it’s policies. Yeah, thanks guys, really doing us a solid there.
If these groups have no real, measurable results to show for their efforts, then they should absolutely be discounted as just more Amarr in need of fixing, people too comfortable or too afraid to take a real stand. Their feelings are something I can understand, and emphasize with, but it is no reason to change my calculus, my opinions, or my actions.
I won’t let such meaningless actions stay my hand, and neither should anyone else.
Wanting to have it both ways is part and parcel of that crowd, Isha. Hypocrisy at never before seen levels. “We are firm loyalists and supporters of the Empire! We are Abolitionists. Wait, no no, the Empire being the most fervent, ravenous and proliferate slaver organization in the history of the cluster doesn’t somehow contradict our abolitionist stance. We’re still against slavery, we’re just for the thing that does the slavery, see? What is this? Are you trying to make me match my words with my actions?! HOW RUDE!”
Etc.
Did I say you should let them stay your hand?
Tell you what, go find someone who was freed because of the limited success the abolition movement has had, and tell them to their face that they don’t matter. Tell that person they’re not real, or measurable.
It’s not nothing. That doesn’t make it enough, but it’s not nothing. And until you can manage to achieve complete success, take every little bit of it you can, however you can get it. That doesn’t mean you don’t hold them to account for their failings, or call them out on how their actions fail to meet the principles they claim to have. It’s possible to be an Abolitionist without being a terribly effective one.
Call them out on it. When they act to get in your way, remove them, just as quickly and as effectively as you’d remove any other loyalist who tries to stop you. Don’t confuse acknowledging when they do something right, for cutting them any slack when they don’t.
I appreciate them just fine, but it doesn’t change anything. That’s the problem.
How much I actually respect these people depends on circumstance. I am not above respecting an Amarr who treats his or her slave with some dignity and decency, who provides for them or liberates them.
But in the end the Empire isn’t going to change because of those little things. These people either don’t WANT to change the Empire’s twisted ways, but just want to do a bit of good, or they want to but can’t bring themselves to do anything more then half-arse it.
And you know, I won’t always hate them for it? You can’t expect everybody to risk life, limb and family for a cause, especially a species that isn’t your own. Even most Minmatar can’t bring themselves to, after all.
There are some people I really can’t respect in that camp, though, simply because they preach high and mighty how they are totally working to change the Empire, you guys and proceed to accomplish just short of nothing of note.
But the reason I would dismiss them is different: The sad truth is, when it comes to actually abolishing slavery and setting these poor souls free, these people are simply a non-factor. They don’t affect anything beyond isolated incidents and on the topic of actually setting the Empire’s slaves free or changing the ways of the Empire, they should be discounted because they are not a factor.
That’s sad, but it’s true. I respect them, but on that field, their contributions are negligible and will never lead to the ultimate change they supposedly desire. So there is nothing to be done with them. Supporting them will lead nowhere. It’s good that they have some compassion, but…True solutions will need to be found somewhere else.
I’m curious: what would you consider not ‘half-arsing it’ from an Amarr citizen? Is it the same for a baseliner as a capsuleer?
