[Vegas] Proposed AF/HAC Module - Assault Damage Control

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61

Wrong. My reactive hardener at 90+% resists will reduce his dps from 380 to 38. I can rep that with no overheat, simply because my 200mm plate buffer will outlast him until his reload.

You’re getting 380 dps against my 250 hps, which gives you 130 steady dps against my buffer 13.7k armor buffer, that means it will take you 105 seconds to get to my hull. A RLM only holds 20 charges with a firing rate at 2.62 second with max skills, thats 52.4 second of firing, not even half of what’s required to break my 13.7k armor buffer.

After the 35 second reload I had obviously killed all light drones and repped armor back to full.

The amazing 3 light drones he sent at me got popped by rockets asap.

62

I’m about to redesign the Bat Mobile:

[Vengeance, The Bat Mobile Redesigned]

Centii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 150

Imperial Navy Small Energy Nosferatu
Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Imperial Navy Small Energy Nosferatu

Small Anti-EM Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

63

That’s not how EHP works. Your total EHP against kinetic is 18.6k. You rep “11.8k” over the course of your whole repper. You know I can’t say why someone would dump three drones against a ship pulsing with reactive hardner but whatever, you launch one at a time while you OH your launchers and dump the ammo in. The premise is simple, for what little time your drone is alive you mess with the reactive.

Without a video to show me how the fight happened all I can do is speculate, maybe he used fury against you which is even worse at applying damage. This is the big problem people have with missile ships, they fit 100% tank and spank and then complain about heavy missiles being ■■■■ when actually they’re OK.

1 Like
64

Right and Wrong at the same time. My total EHP is 17.5 including shields and hull…we don’t care about that; the armor hp is 13.7 (we’re assuming that I’m taking 100% kinetic in this example).

The formula is simple.

Cerb applied dps = 380 (kinetic) = A
Veng hp/s = 250 (against kinetic) = B
Veng armor buffer = 13,700 (against kinetic) = C
Time to live = T

T = C/(A-B) = 13,700/(380-250) = 13700/130 = 105.3 seconds

Cerb ROF = 2.62 seconds = D, RLM charges = 20 = E. Time Cerb has to kill me before reload = F
F = D(E) = 52.4 seconds

T > F true, Cerb cannot kill vengeance alone

T > 2F true, Cerb has no chance of killing vengeance even with support from a poorly applying Mach.

65

What is the “correct” way, though?

1 Like
66

Look at the above math.

67

A cerberus deals 27k worth of damage with kinetic navy, 32k with fury. If he can apply to you perfectly from start to finish a single clip of 20 fury missiles is enough to kill you. He can’t apply without taking modules dedicated to the task and webs.

In other words that cerberus was very poorly fitted. Overheated he can land that damage in slightly less time, possibly burning through your reps. Your repper cycles every 3.8s overheated. It’s purely a matter of applied dps whether he can punch through fast enough to beat your cycles.

You would think that at 60m/s that he could have which is why I suspect he was using fury missiles, because he doesn’t understand the missile formula and as a consequence didn’t kill a vengeance even though he should have been able to.

1 Like
68

I think this is a good example of PYFA/EFT vs real life. In real life things don’t go the way they appear on paper, not to mention even on paper my vengeance will survive the great majority of circumstances in this Cerb + Mach fight.

You’re operating under the assumption that Jackleen (the cerb pilot) had a crystal ball that could look into the future and seeing exactly which ship and fitting I was going to tackle his friend with, and thus would know exactly how to fit his ship to take me down.

If I had the same crystal ball I would refit my ship as follows (same as above post), it was this very thread that intrigued me to redesign it. Here’s I’m boasting 426 hp/s against kinetic (545 overheat) with a 12.1k armor buffer against kinetic.

I get 800hp/s against explosive and thermal in this setup and 466 hp/s against EM (kinetic is the weakest resist, thus if I absolutely knew I was going to fight a Cerb I would fit a kinetic hardener, but sadly we don’t have crystal balls).

[Vengeance, The Bat Mobile Redesigned]

Centii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 150

Imperial Navy Small Energy Nosferatu
Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Imperial Navy Small Energy Nosferatu

Small Anti-EM Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Just for the lolz here’s a pic of PYFA if I actually did fit a kinetic hardener with my crystal ball:

Overheated:

Actually the next time I hear in intel that a solo Cerb is bouncing about I’m going to do this. hehehe solo kill with a veng!

I really hope the veng layout/stats remain the same after ADCU module release, I don’t want them to gimp my bat mobile.

Consumable afterburners for AF’s would be a better way to go instead of ADCU module.

69

now i understand why you use a battleship to protect your miner.

1 Like
70

What I want to know is why that mach was trying to orbit you instead of just gaining range and blapping you. What range did you sit at? Seemed like he had no problem swatting the other flies. Because without a web he would have been marginally faster than you and should have been gaining distance on you very slowly. In addition to a hundred other conditions, he could have used DU instead of EMP L and been getting more/better hits.

The more I look at it the more I think that absolutely nothing they did was right. The mach could probably just killed you on his own with some better piloting but like I said without a video it’s all down to my opinion.

Once you load up the mach fit and your fit, plug in DU and look at the graph. Projected both the grappler and the web on to your vengeance. 55.2m/s at 90degrees orbit, graphed out it looks like at merely 3km he’d be doing 450dps to you, with your reactive hardener spread over 2 resists you rep only 287hp/s with an ehp gross against his damage of 16k. You would rep a total of 8.7k ehp before running out of paste.

Eve is 100% maths, you get perfect results with maths, you suffer losses from imperfect piloting. I just can’t understand how this mach took 8 minutes to NOT kill you inside scram range when all he had to do to win was just click “keep at range 5km” and he would have smashed your ■■■■ inside and out. Instead I suspect he tried to orbit you and the rest is history.

1 Like
71

He pulled range a lot, but the effect of grapple greatly diminishes past 1km after he pulls range. He could never get further than 6km before I could slowboat (on a very slight 10ish degree angle) back to him. He can never escape the short point range.

The other flies he swated had MWDs with amazing sig bloom. I had an AB.

72

There’s no paste, it’s an A-type deadspace rep.

Also I had more than enough buffer to survive the occasional heavy burst of well-applied hits while we did the transversal dance and we’ve already proven that the Cerb is a non-issue in this fight.

Perhaps if they deployed 5+3 light drones, overheated Cerb RLM after reload and pulled range with overheated grappler + mach guns at the same time they may have killed me when I was alone. You gotta remember there was other ■■■■ slowly trickling onto the grid from my side.

73

I wasn’t talking about the fit using the deadspace repper. I’m not going to debate this any further without a video. It’s pointless to continue speculating about what this guy should have done when all sign point to a better mach pilot beating you.

Your vengeance is good at tackling things, who knew? The results speak for themselves, I looked at your killboard. Doesn’t mean that you gank competent pilots though, a great number of people playing this game are totally mediocre. That mach had everything he needed to just moonwalk away from you and yet he died.

Whatever.

1 Like
74

He was missing one thing that would even allow a medicore player so swat me…an afterburner.

75

With an MWD it’s only good for tackling things that want to engage me unfortunately. Based in intel reports he was engaging everything under BC size.

76

I had always liked the reactive hardener. Never had a fitting senior ever take to using them on ANYTHING, even above frig.

Once I fit a 400mm catalyst with DCU and reactive. I would lose it in some fights and naysayers would mock the fit, not understanding that we would take zero losses besides and that it served its purpose, being the only catalyst on field. Same with a 200mm plate, adaptive, web, with 125’s. It projected dps much nicer than 75’s with AM and allowed some AB maneuvering. Never did catch on until somebody in null used them in large numbers. The concept of applicable range was proven to work real nice, even if eft shows weak dps. Things handle differently in practice vs theory, as you say.

2 Likes
77

Not sure how you tackle anything with an AB fit tackler tbh especially as slow as the AFs are. GJ though!

Also, the Twin MASB Hawk is pretty much the meta in solo and small gang. It reps more than a single with no cap usage which makes it less susceptible to neuting. The fit you linked has a fast cycle time (rigs) which is not that important as the rep lands on the top of the cycle and you will just run out of charges quicker. No room for a web either.

For tackling, the nos isn’t really necessary either and it doesn’t draw much cap. If you get hit with a Med or Heavy Neut, you won’t hold tackle anyway. A booster would be better but I wouldn’t sac a mid for that either.

[Hawk, Twin MASB]

Co-Processor II
Damage Control II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Warp Scrambler II

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
[Empty High slot]
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

I love the Vengeance and like your fit other than the AB. I will be tinkering now!

1 Like
78

Are they going to allow an extra spot like a subsystem just for this module? If Answer = No, then No thanks. Do something more useful with your time. I don’t need to be forced to use this, and if I don’t I don’t stand a chance, not a huge fan of this type of ■■■■.

1 Like
79

Yeah, It’s gonna be a real disadvantage to shield AFs with few low slots, namely the Hawk. There will have little to no option to put damage mods in the lows. Another issue, is that it will be a nerfed DCU until you use it so the tank suffers until it’s activated, then it is a short term effect.

Will just have to see I guess.

1 Like
80

I’m fairly certain you would still be able to use normal damage controls still. Such worry.